Hard News: Prospects
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Appreciate your thoughts on Tim Barnett Craig. Re. my earlier comment about Clark's timidity in promoting him: Tim had become something of a lightning rod for those vehemently opposed to his work on civil unions and prostitution law reform. While Clark obviously gave at least her tacit approval to these initiatives, she didn't appear to believe that it was politically expedient to adequately reward such a talented and ambitious - and, dare I say, principled - MP.
As for the Gladstone comparison - not in my humble experience, or that of others I know. Tim did become a lot more accessible to his constituents, though, after the ferocious party hack who fielded his calls was kicked upstairs to Wellington.
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If teachers don't want national testing, start organising now.....have 80% to 90% willing to refuse to carry it out, when it is introduced. Introduce National to a little civil disobedience.
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Ben Wilson and others
Re education, particularly how NZ can provide the best of inclusive education for all students. This is not the right forum for a discussion on this complex topic. I would like to see a government sponsored conference on education, with representation from the unions, principals organisations, disability groups etc. Most importantly, it would hear from students themselves, including those with disabilities and behaviour issues, about what works for them. One of the main problems with the public discussion on the child discipline bill (and the referendum to come) is the lack of a voice for children themselves. Similarly, we rarely hear from kids about their own education. -
here's a serious question:
who was the first person to call a national government this election?
my first memory is that "terrorist" guy caught up in the raids last year.
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Actually, it wasn't me, and I'm too lazy to go back through the thread now and find out who did ask.
You'll take the credit and like it, young lady! :)
'Twas me, she cried. Same initial, anyway.
So Craig, basically you want them to break all the financial promises they made? Are you *trying* to sabotage them in 2011? :)
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So Craig, basically you want them to break all the financial promises they made? Are you *trying* to sabotage them in 2011? :)
Not all, Danielle. But I've consistently said, not matter who won, both National and Labour were letting their mouths write checks their arses just can't cash. You don't have to be Roger Douglas on a megadose of meth-laced triple espresso to point out that inconvenient truth. And it doesn't any less true because my team are going to get first suck at the dead rat sushi.
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But just because the differences between the center-right and the center-left aren't exactly those that marked the Protestant Reformation, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Sure, but there's arguably as much or more actual policy difference between ACT and National than between National and Labour.
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Granny Herald headline:
John Key: Our NZ election win will boost economy
Sigh. And lo! We can make the sun rise! And Lo! Watch as we make the tides go out!
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I think "crap" is the word you're looking for.
I agree with the sentiment that it isn't entirely rational to vote out Labour at this time. I understand traditional National supporters voting for their party, sure. But so many swing voters went National on a "it's time for a change" basis. That isn't rational. I find it a little ironic that the pututive conservative party gained a lot of votes on a change-for-change's-sake basis.
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put__a__tive
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Hilary
This is not the right forum for a discussion on this complex topic.
Heh, yup I'm not going to have any more influence than I wielded with my two insignificant ticks, that's for sure. Are you saying you'd rather talk about it on another thread? Cause I'm interested in the discussion if you if are.
Re children's input, you're right in one sense, we don't get reliable polling data on children's opinions of political matters. But the children who could be either mainstreamed or given more special service are definitely asked a lot of stuff, they're extensively evaluated by trained professionals. Their own happiness is a major factor in the process, which is by no means simple and should not really be ideologically driven.
Steve Parks and Craig
You know, maybe Labour and National should consider forming a coalition. Serious.
That would a fun process -- though you'd have to coduct it somewhere you could just clean the blood and bone off the floor (and walls and ceiling) with a high pressure hose. :) But just because the differences between the center-right and the center-left aren't exactly those that marked the Protestant Reformation, doesn't mean they don't exist.
The biggest difference is tribal I think, it's the demographics, rather than the philosophy. Can city folk and country folk agree on a bunch of issues? Personally I find that easier to believe than the idea that all National voters would be happy with an ACT agenda.
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Ben, you have some interesting thoughts on swing voters, there.
1) Not giving a crap about philosophy is total pragmatism.
Actually, Pragmatism is a philosophy. And it accords with your own views a bit, I’d say…
My own personal view. I do not hold fast to any particular truth, because I believe doing so makes it harder to actually find it. I see the likely set of 'profound differences' simply as competing theories which each have evidence for and against.
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@ Che _ I'm pretty sure you're right.
As the "laws" that allowed Op8 to go a head are the result of Goff & King, and so NZFirst are now redundant.
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Heh, Steve, I think that the names of philosophical doctrines are not a good guide to modern language use. I doubt that many pragmatists in the sense I use would have heard about the philosophy, nor would they care to. My own views rise from my opinions on science, definitely heavily influenced by Popper and counterbalanced by Feyerabend. Since they say quite contrary things, you could say I'm undecided, or that I take the bits I like from both.
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I doubt that many pragmatists in the sense I use would have heard about the philosophy, nor would they care to.
Sure, and I know what you meant. But it was a good way to lead into my point about your views and Pragmatism seeming fairly congruent. "I do not hold fast to any particular truth" sounds Pragmatic, with a capital 'P'.
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I agree with the sentiment that it isn't entirely rational to vote out Labour at this time.
Well, I think retailing that "our long national nightmare" etc. from The Onion wasn't exactly rational either. I'm with Brian Gaynor, who was on Maori on Election night and said he was (and I'm paraphrasing) that from an economic perspective, he found the policies of both National and Labour, and the quality and depth of the campaign coverage, "deeply uninspiring and rather disturbing".
(And as a sidebar -- props to Maori, who proved yet again that sticking to the basics, and doing them well, is more satisfying than the sound and fury signifying nothing on display from both TVNZ & Three. The two main networks were the proverbial curate's egg -- good in parts.)
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For those people keep trying to define Act
I've been trying to explain Act to some American friends - both their politics and demeanor - best short thing I could come up with was "sort of Ayn Rand meets Dancing with the Stars" - but that really doesn't reflect the scary/ugly side I see in them
and
"Roger the Lodger" comes from my parents' book of naughty limericks.
May I suggest my Canadian friends in their (hardcore punk) band Nomeansno and the perfect theme song for Act
Slayde
Slayde is my buddy, my pal, he is my brother
I am one, he is the other
When the sun shines, he is my shadow
And when the moon is high, it's at his feet I lie
But I’ll never listen to what slayde says
I'll never listen to what slayde saysSlayde's always talking, and it's rarely nice
He's always whispering his poisonous advice
He is secretive, ruthless and cold
He mentions just enough and leaves the rest untold
He said "Don't ever risk an open attack
Just smile into their faces and then stab them in the back"
”But Slayde" I said
“What about the weak, the helpless and the small?”
He just sneered and said
"Fuck 'em all
Fuck 'em all"He said “I am a murderer, although I’ve killed no one”
”You talk in puzzles Slayde” I said”What have you really done?”
"I cut the twining cord, I shot the turtle dove
I shut out that precious light that shines from above"
“Slayde, you are a poet” I said ”but what are you truly speaking of?”
He smiled and whispered “I MURDERED LOVE" he smiled and whispered ”I MURDERED LOVE"I guess I hate him - no, that's not really true
He's not completely bad
Sometimes he'll crack a joke or two
I guess I’ve grown accustomed to his funny ways
It's not his fault
That he was made that wayI hear him in my sleep, I see him in my dreams
I see him crouched before those terrible machines
And then I face a mirror and he steps in between
Can you tell me, what does this mean?
Can you tell me, what does this mean?Now I lay me down to sleep and pray to god my soul to keep
If I should die before I wake
You'll know I’ve made my escape
But there is one step I’ll never take
I'll never listen to what Slayde says
What? What? ... What? -
@ Ben. Hilary
I'm up for an education discussion too but I think somone may have to write something to get it started. I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?
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I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?
A think a guest post from Hilary would be great.
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I agree a guest post would be good. Ben, your assumption about ready access to specialist assessment is sadly untrue. Even that part of the process is horribly underfunded and often requires persistent advocacy from parents.
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I also think the Hilary guest post would be a good idea. I vaguely remember her saying something a couple of weeks back about having a lot more to say about that subject.
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And as a sidebar -- props to Maori, who proved yet again that sticking to the basics, and doing them well, is more satisfying than the sound and fury signifying nothing on display from both TVNZ & Three. The two main networks were the proverbial curate's egg -- good in parts.
Oh I can believe that. I was almost going to watch Maori TV's coverage. As I've said 400 times now, I actually mostly watched the India/Australia test.
(By the way India have won Gavaskar/Border trophy - yay!)
When I did watch the election coverage, it was One or 3, here & there, just out of habit. But even just the promo for the Maori election coverage seemed somehow more... sober.
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But even just the promo for the Maori election coverage seemed somehow more... sober.
I guess being out in the wilds of Newmarket was far enough away from the ley line of stupid running between TVNZ (random drunks on the roof!) and Three (a much less impressive touch screen than CNN) for an endearingly low-tech seriousness to assert itself.
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And was I the only person who thought, every time Mark Sainsbury cried "let's go to the plasma!", that I'd stumbled across Hell's Kitchen for vampires?
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I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?
Well, if one follows through on the regular criticism of Helen that a woman without children was telling people how to raise their offspring, no pollie who's never been a teacher (goodbye, vast, vast majority of National's caucus) should ever be let near Education. Similarly non-cops at Police, non-medicos at Health, and non-military at Defence.
John Key is singularly unqualified to be anywhere near policies for women and maori, as are most of his Cabinet-to-be.Good thing we don't try and enforce that "Don't touch it if you have no practical experience" line, because we'd be supremely served on Agriculture and that'd be about it. Not quite sure how one would qualify for Internal Affairs, either. Maybe a past career as a proctologist? :P
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