Not quite sure how one would qualify for Internal Affairs, either. Maybe a past career as a proctologist?

Depends on the internals, after all Winston has been talking out of his a**e for ages...kerboom tish !

John Key is singularly unqualified to be anywhere near policies for women and maori, as are most of his Cabinet-to-be.

Heh a little voice over my shoulder has just pointed out what a joy that would be...

On the other hand it does leave JK uniquely qualified to do....errr um…

After the recent social services select committee inquiry into disability services (PDF, 236k) there seemed to be a…

Ben, your assumption about ready access to specialist assessment is sadly untrue. Even that part of the process is horribly underfunded and often requires persistent advocacy from parents.

Definitely true. My mother works with kids with various special needs, and her #1 piece of advice to the parents is to…

I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?

Well, if one follows through on the regular criticism of Helen that a woman without children was telling people how to raise their offspring, no pollie who's never been a teacher (goodbye,…

But even just the promo for the Maori election coverage seemed somehow more... sober.

I guess being out in the wilds of Newmarket was far enough away from the ley line of stupid running between TVNZ (random drunks on the roof!) and Three (a much less impressive touch screen than…

I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?

A think a guest post from Hilary would be great.

I'm up for an education discussion too but I think somone may have to write something to get it started. I could start it with the old chestnut of should politicians write education policy in any form ?

I've been trying to explain Act to some American friends – both their politics and demeanor – best short thing I could come up with was "sort of Ayn Rand meets Dancing with the Stars" – but that really doesn't reflect the…

I agree with the sentiment that it isn't entirely rational to vote out Labour at this time.

Well, I think retailing that "our long national nightmare" etc. from The Onion wasn't exactly rational either. I'm with Brian Gaynor, who was on Maori on Election night and said he was (and…

As the "laws" that allowed Op8 to go a head are the result of Goff & King, and so NZFirst are now redundant.

1) Not giving a crap about philosophy is total pragmatism.

Actually, Pragmatism is a philosophy. And it accords with your own views a bit, I’d say…

My own personal view. I do not hold fast to any particular truth, because…

This is not the right forum for a discussion on this complex topic.

Heh, yup I'm not going to have any more influence than I wielded with my two insignificant ticks, that's for sure. Are you saying you'd rather talk about it on another thread? Cause I'm interested in…

I think "crap" is the word you're looking for.

I agree with the sentiment that it isn't entirely rational to vote out Labour at this time. I understand traditional National supporters voting for their party, sure. But so many swing voters went National on a "it's time for a change"…

John Key: Our NZ election win will boost economy

Sigh. And lo! We can make the sun rise! And Lo! Watch as we make the tides go out!

But just because the differences between the center-right and the center-left aren't exactly those that marked the Protestant Reformation, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Sure, but there's arguably as much or more actual policy difference between ACT and National than between National and Labour.

So Craig, basically you want them to break all the financial promises they made? Are you *trying* to sabotage them in 2011? :)

Not all, Danielle. But I've consistently said, not matter who won, both National and Labour were letting their mouths write checks their arses just can't cash. You…

Actually, it wasn't me, and I'm too lazy to go back through the thread now and find out who did ask.

You'll take the credit and like it, young lady! :)

'Twas me, she cried. Same initial, anyway.

So Craig, basically you want them to break all the financial promises…

who was the first person to call a national government this election?

my first memory is that "terrorist" guy caught up in the raids last year.

You know, maybe Labour and National should consider forming a coalition. Serious.

That would a fun process — though you'd have to coduct it somewhere you could just clean the blood and bone off the floor (and walls and ceiling) with a high pressure hose. :) But just because the…

And so it's nothing other than a vote for the exact middle. Definitely not a vote for Act, and esp not for Douglas. If Act exerts any influence, then Key will disappoint a lot of people who thought nothing would be very different under this kinder, gentler National government.

……

Me too – but do you have a better theory about that particular festering anomaly in promoting talent?

Well, from what I've heard (and I'd throw in the caveat that my contacts in Labour circles are hardly comprehensive), Tim is a very talented man but can leave people feeling like…

Stephen Franks lost the candidate race for Wellington Central, on the back of a National landslide and winning the Party vote. I guess they just don't like him :)

Me too – but do you have a better theory about that particular festering anomaly in promoting talent?

Two theories required. One theory relates to Helen Clark's hanging on to Tizard, a clearly incompetent minister. The other would relate to why Tim Barnett didn't get a Ministerial position. Given Chris…

Were some people seriously fooled that it was a hologram?

The way it jerked suddenly to new camera angles was a giveaway. I thought cooler than the people was the visualizations they devised.

I just found it hilarious that the half-assed Kiwi version looked *significantly* better than CNN's much-heralded attempt…

Actually, it wasn't me, and I'm too lazy to go back through the thread now and find out who did ask.

You'll take the credit and like it, young lady! :)

The way it jerked suddenly to new camera angles was a giveaway. I thought cooler than the people was the visualizations they devised.

Linger

It does tell you how relatively close parties are compared to each other, which is interesting.…

What struck me about the pointlessness of it, was that the magic of holograms is that they are a 3d image in front of you. I'm sure it looked incredible for everyone in the studio.

Yes, looking at empty space must have been thrilling. It was purely a greenscreen trick,…

Before throwing stones maybe you should've checked out these sites first:
http://www.labour08.co.nz/
http://www.labour.org.nz/index.htm
Not exactly current, are they?

Whoa, do you think I'm a Labour webmaster or something? Because I'm not! I'm so not.

If Labour haven't updated their websites, then that's just as bad as National.

Not everyone is…

I'm not sure that will ever happen, Craig, alas. I do feel uncomfortable at the thought of wishing ill on National and Act, because it does mean wishing ill…

There's no space between [Labour and National], Unless you believe in the 'Colossal divide between Labour and National' theory. [Which Ben doesn't.] I think center parties do wield great influence, but they are very hard to hang onto for that reason.

A few days ago, No Right Turn posted…

Here goes, and it's not so much Pollyanna as Twilight Zone but stick with me.

Helen Clark and Michael Cullen may have quit their respect roles in the parliamentary Labour, but…

It's all well and good to vent but crikey look at the time.

Less than 24 hours after the party in which many of us wanted to believe was defeated at the polls. Even as someone who didn't vote for them, I think that it's okay, really, to grieve, for…

If Clark really thought that (and I really want to believe better of her) . . .

Me too – but do you have a better theory about that particular festering anomaly in promoting talent?

In the end, who the hell knows — perhaps Tim Barnett was being perfectly honest, and just decided he'd pretty much…

Anyone else disappointed that it's been a whole twenty-four hours or so and the Apocalypse has not arrived? Perhaps tomorrow.

Love you and love your work, Craig, but you can be such a dick sometimes

Yeah, but I'm kinda with Craig on this one. It's all well and good to…

Whatever Tim's real reasons for quitting, it must have rankled to see the awful Judith Tizard given a semi-ministerial role while his obvious talents languished because Helen feared frightening the chooks by promoting an openly gay MP.

If Clark really thought that (and I really want to believe better of…

"sort of Ayn Rand meets Dancing with the Stars" – but that really doesn't reflect the scary/ugly side I see in them

Oh yes it does!

Labour nominated another clanger with Yau in Ilam. Pissing in the wind to start with being Ilam, but it would seem like 1000 of the Labour Party voters split their candidate…

You could draw up an interesting shadow Parliament (or three) of folks who might have been pretty decent MPs but, for any number of reasons, the planets didn't quite line up for them while major league oxygen thieves survive and prosper. I'm still trying to figure out what dirt…

Yeah that was a bit cryptic on my behalf. Megan Woods is the better candidate for Labour & Christchurch Central.

She stood priviously for Progressives here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_Central

And did a fine job going for mayor against Sideshow Bob.
http://archived.ccc.govt.nz/Elections/2007/Results/#Mayor

The 2004 mayoral campaign had a few dirty tricks in it…

Blake – Peter Dunne did this in the early 90s,took some from Labour and National and formed United something, and its been morphing ever since, until there is now just him. However, I prefer…

I have to feel sorry for the people working at Concord School, Dunedin North on Saturday. Zero votes all day. You'd be wondering if someone played a really big joke on the whole country.

Andrew E & Matt L: It's a safe bet that many of those who swung to Key on Saturday wouldn't be too pleased if Rodney & Roger end up wagging the dog. If that came to pass, Rod & Roger shoudn't be too surprised if it all goes French.

Oh, as I've said…

Holograms on TV.
Totally pointless or just a con and a gimmick?

What struck me about the pointlessness of it, was that the magic of holograms is that they are a 3d image in front…

Love you and love your work, Craig, but you can be such a dick sometimes.

The disregard is entirely mutual. I find it enchanting that Roger Douglas has already been appointed Minister of Very Nasty Things, the economy is already doomed (but that will be very good for Labour, so…

The most recent graphical data I have available is from the 2005 election, but I'd imaging the pattern wouldn't be too different this time round.

Yep, Berhampore is still a stanch little suburban nugget of redness. I'm going to go out and kiss random neighbours tomorrow. (Seriously: Labour + Greens…

Anyone else disappointed that it's been a whole twenty-four hours or so and the Apocalypse has not arrived? Perhaps tomorrow.

Love you and love your work, Craig, but you can be such a dick sometimes.

Fixed it for you!

I'd rather not have bothered, but we woman-hating suburban fascisti need to keep in practice.

Nice.

I think "crap" is the word you're looking for.

Good god, up until Saturday morning we were being told that there was serious economic crisis that necessitated new leadership but…

Philip M & Giovanni: There…

I still can't get my head around the way some people voted like that.

I find it easy to understand. Betting a bit both ways is signaling you like both, or what you dislike in each is similar in magnitude.

Party faithful find it hard to understand because they fundamentally…

How do you find out those figures, Giovanni?

All the polling booths are listed by electorate here.

Rodney Hide and John Key together now on Sunday, revealing that their policies and plans are very different.

Er, shouldn't this interview / debate have happened on TV One before we voted?

Not that should be of any surprise to anyone really. (Key wouldn't want to say anything that…

I actually think they…

Labour 414 votes
Greens 159
National 140
New Zealand First 28
Act 8 – just one more than "informal party votes"!
Maori Party, Legalise Cannabis and Progressives 6
United Future 3

I'm going to start…

I still can't get my head around the way some people voted like that.

It's easier if you see Labour and National as centrist parties with only minor variation on how they want to run the show.

MMP has enabled those who no longer feel comfortable putting more radical views…

Er, shouldn't this interview / debate have happened on TV One before we voted?

call Jim Anderton Labour for the purposes of this

A quick hand-poll at the Young Labour Christchurch election party ("Be honest, you all voted for Jim, didn't you?") demonstrated that this opinion was rather widely held.

There should be a bloody great kick up the bum to the Labour Party Central Body who've inflicted Burns on Christchurch Central.
They passed over the best candidate for their Wellington insider and almost lost it.

Forgive me if I'm a little slow here, who's this best candidate you…

probably not...but.... divisiveness is divisiveness and sometimes in the interests of political self preservation, it's just better letting the people decide.

I'm hoping to see more…

It says that our main assets are food production, scenery and Kiwi ingenuity.

Anybody noticing the similarity with 'Our main weapons are...'?

Key, Hide and Dunne – nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Michael Cullen is stepping down from the deputy leadership of the LP according to the radio news. Sorry to lose these two great intellects from our country's leadership. I hope he and Helen find time to write their memoirs.

He'll be missed more if he decides he'd like a more…

I don't begrudge the Nat's their win. I'm thankful for the last nine years (of course I have some worries for the next three years). I'm pleased however, that Labour's renewal is well advanced. 12 new members, some exceptional, will ensure the Opposition is energetic.

Quite. I'll post on…

Where did the ideas in that come from? Some New Zealand tourism promo film from the '80s?

I think it came from a poster on Murray Hewitt's wall.

It says that our main assets are food production, scenery and Kiwi ingenuity. That's why you'll never see a farmer on a bike.

Ah, the old food, scenery and ingenuity speech. Where did the ideas in that come from? Some New Zealand tourism promo film from the '80s?

In other…

[Richard:] It would seem that New Zealand's long national nightmare of peace of prosperity is finally over.

Nice.

just caught up on the posts I missed last night/this morning.

Craig:

BY the way folks, if you're expecting me to counter bitter, nasty and patronising with equally bitter and nasty gloating, I'll be happy to oblige with the following...

Have a nice morning nursing the hangover…

While I do not once for a moment think that she is the greatest prime minister NZ has had, I would have to say she is up…

Well, I have been famous for my so-called rants over the past few years, especially since 2004/2005. I dropped off a little after that, but life kinda got in the way...

Anyway, I just want to share my thoughts on what happened.…

I don't begrudge the Nat's their win. I'm thankful for the last nine years (of course I have some worries for the next three years). I'm pleased however, that Labour's renewal is well advanced. 12 new members, some exceptional, will ensure the Opposition is energetic.

The network cut to some duschbag interrupting history around then, and we flipped channels to squeeze out another 2 mins.

Same thing happened when Paul Henry interrupted John McCain's concession speech to give his inconsequential opinion on the matter, which I found similarly rude and boorish.

My theory for the drop off in their support has nothing to do with the scandles, Winston thrives on them. It has everything to do with the cold snap that passed through and so more of his supporters passed off…

Then I realised something – all the Labour seats were in urban areas ... I'm not sure what this says about New Zealand.

It says that our main assets are food production, scenery and Kiwi ingenuity. That's why you'll never see a farmer on a bike.

Then I realised something – all the Labour seats were in urban areas, specifically the traditional "four main centres" of Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin. Oh, and Palmerston North.

I'm not sure…

This time round Tariana Turia is in the middle of being interviewed on TV3 last night when the camera cuts suddenly to go to Corporate Cabs leaving Key's house...

Gee thanks, Che. :-)

ah, but we never worked "together". i did get shafted by a member of your office though...

one who shares the name of a famous new zealand poet.

Well. That was the score at the time of writing

My point being that I don't think it was. My first post last wherein I mentioned the score had them at 280/6, and that came before your post with Katich still in. I was watching the cricket live (mostly) instead…

It's raining – bloody government!
(Italian proverb)
Heh. For a second, I had visions of a downpour of men in grey suits :-)

Only if it were a Belgian proverb.

To me, this National victory is a a victory for the ugly New Zealander, the boorish provincial mysogynist, the bullying white male, for the snearing tall poppyism of the kiwiblog sewer.

Well said Tom I think that would make a great Tee shirt skogan. ;-)
Also, I think you may…

In particular the way he railed in Birch's instruction to the IRD to attack regardless of the human (and indeed, often fiscal) consequences. I've always give Hide credit for that and it's a huge stain on the IRD and their political masters at the time.

Yes, that is one thing…

One thing I've liked about Hide (maybe the only thing) was that he did the opposition thing right – called the govt on things and kept them honest (not so much this term though) – in a way that the Nats really didn't

In particular the way he railed in…

And now I am trying to work out how I can get back on speaking terms with several of my friends who I told in no uncertain terms to piss off with their gloating text messages last night.

Ah fuck 'em, they can come to me.

The Maori Party would be crazy to give National confidence and supply without huge concessions. Lose your virginity, you want the keys to the Porsche, not just the ride.

Clear lesson from 4 previous post-election deals: the voters don't care about ministers being in or out of cabinet, about…

And how long did it take Labour to get through three Prime Ministers?

Yes, not very long. But one of them resigned in disgust, over Roger Douglas of all people. Only the replacement of Goff is vaguely comparable, and it was hardly the midnight rolling of Bloger in the middle…

[from me, earlier]: Last election I cast a special vote. I was overseas during the election, and watched the result on the internet from Zurich. I was a little surprised at the outcome. I wonder if I will be this time?

Nope. Not really. Well... a little at how clear…

I actually believe the Greens when they say, even if they can't support a National-lead government on confidence and supply matters, neither are they going to oppose for opposition's sake.

And I expect the Greens to keep sticking their fabulous Private Members' Bills in the ballot, and keep getting them…

It's raining – bloody government!

(Italian proverb)

Heh. For a second, I had visions of a downpour of men in grey suits :-)

This is the thing – labour isn't a demoralised or dispirited organisation. it's…

I always suspected Labour would be doing the same if elected.

You may well be right. But Labour's promises didn't include "We won't be selling any state-owned assets in our first term."
Rearranging operational spending, deferring tax cuts (bit hard when some have already been legislated), and trying to bring…

The people have spoken, the bastards!

(California legislator Dick Tuck, 1970's)

It's raining – bloody government!

(Italian proverb)

You're giving him the full three years? We're talking about the fifth leader of the National party in the last 12 years. Labour's had one. Just one.

And how long did it take Labour to get through three Prime Ministers? Seriously, Matthew, Labour really needs to smarten up if they…

Craig. In case you hadn't noticed today IS 09/11/08. I think Trotter was being ironic, with his usual dubious choice of analogies.

Steve: With that much ingenuity on the table, can you be my bargaining agent the next time I want my overdraft extended. :)

The people have spoken, the…

But the voters won't like him much in three years' time – which means his caucus won't like him much either.

You're giving him the full three years? We're talking about the fifth leader of the National party in the last 12 years. Labour's had one. Just one. Rolling leaders…

Douglas says review the promises

Oh, of *course* he does.

(California legislator Dick Tuck, 1970's)

Still, I can't really share the doom and gloom. If McCain & Palin had won I'd be so angry I'd be joining the Weather Underground. When Key wins I just enjoy the weather.

This will sound like I'm plagiarising Pangloss,…

Rodney thinks Roger should be finance minister because those are the skills Act has to offer the country? Oh oh. Thanks Epsom.

Thanx Goodoh, we've been waiting for you. ;-)
I was thinking, as I woke up this morning with a blue moon in my eyes, I have to drive…

Many Of Obama's Harshest Critics Now Rushing To Praise Him...
Bachmann: Obama's Victory "A Tremendous Signal"...
Palin: "God Bless Barack Obama"...
Lieberman: Obama's A "Genuine Patriot"...
Bill Kristol Congratulates Obama

Funny, innit – from the moment of Clinton's first victory as President the Reublican machine painting him as Public Enemy…

And I'm sorry if this offends Joe Wylie once more, but if certain sections of the left don't like being compared to the right-wingnuts that make Kiwiblog such a nasty place they shouldn't behave like it. Work though the whole Keubler-Ross deal, but don't take too long about it.

Craig,…

Problem is John isn't Barack. The Yanks tossed out a complete disaster of a president and replaced him with a man with…

Get it out of your system because in a few days you will all be singing Key's praises. That's if the US election is anything to go by:

Many Of Obama's Harshest Critics Now Rushing To Praise Him...
Bachmann: Obama's Victory "A Tremendous Signal"...
Palin: "God…

"Sincerely" believing breaking election rules, as long as it keeps the wrong people out of power, is... well, I don't want to drop that particular F-bomb here.

Meh... __"Sincerely" believing breaking election rules is "courageous corruption", as long as it keeps the wrong people out of power, is disturbingly close…

Have you checked down the back of your couch?

Yes. Sadly, nothing doing there. But since I think tax-cuts are the wrong way to go, and that Labour shouldn't have succumbed to the media hype for them, I'd rather find something down the back of the sofa than getting more…

I can't point at anything about the Greens campaign and say "WTF were these numpties thinking".

Agreed ... and their campaign had the simple, though beautifully executed, message "PARTY vote Green". All I am saying is that in Ohariu their supporters could have used their other vote to try and…

I'm floating a kite here (that tiresome secret ballot malarky and all), but perhaps everyone in Ohariu-Belmont who cast their party votes Labour's way (and that was over a thousand more than voted for Charles Chauvel) did so because in their considered view Labour was the best choice? I…

Ooooh... burn. Not.

Not??

I thought you said we weren't going to go back to the nineties.

my experience of policy advisers has lead me to believe they behave like the "youngest children" of the public service.

Gee thanks, Che. :-)

I still have no idea what…

Hey, tax cut fans. If you wanted change you should have just checked down the back of the couch, you may well have been better off.

Ooooh... burn. Not.

But as Deborah and a few others found, it was difficult to vote for Labour if you felt like they'd abandoned principle. So, as much as I support tactical voting, I'm not going to diss people who couldn't stomach voting for Labour.

The point here is that tactical…

Hey, tax cut fans. If you wanted change you should have just checked down the back of the couch, you may well have been better off.

If that's vaguely directed towards me, you couldn't be more off base.

Exactly.

@ 81stcolumn

LOL at the Roger McGough poem. How apt.

You mean the US, Australia and...? I can see plenty of countries going right just about now.

Quite. And if you wanted, you could argue in both cases, that's it not a matter of either country going left as turning away from the neoliberal excesses of their previous Governments. Kevin…

then it was just a case of whether the reds deserved my party vote or not.

i thought not.

when the rest of the world is going left

You mean the US, Australia and...? I can see plenty of countries going right just about now.

the numbers look a lot like his voters abandoned him for the nats,

Yes, that makes a lot more sense, and would help to explain why Dunne was cosing up to National during the campaign: could smell which way the wind was blowing in his constituency.

and it was bad…

maybe for some bizarre reason the populace wanted a Labour government but Peter Dunne back in

the numbers look a lot like his voters abandoned him for the nats, and it was bad luck that those greens didn't think to vote for chauvel.

Policy development. LOL. I'm struggling to remember the last time I struck a significant policy process that held benefit to the public as its core tenet.

tee-hee. my experience of policy advisers has lead me to believe they behave like the "youngest children" of the public service.

and i realised…

Craig, out of curiosity, what sort of National government would you like to see in terms of a "vision thing"

I don't believe in "vision things" — but I'd sure have liked to have seen both National and Labour making promises I could have believed they can pay for. Brian…

I'm liking this idea more and more as we progress. I'm sure we can combine the two suggestions- he could be a crime-solving, conspiracy-uncovering, bullet-dodging, dairy owner.

I'll bet that both John and Helen would watch it. They couldn't resist.

I "pitched" an idea to a friend who works at TVNZ a couple of years back. It had Winston Peters as a dairy owner whose most regular customer was Paul Holmes. It would be like the Odd Couple. From Hell.

Winston in some kind of Apu from The Simpsons role?…

I "pitched" an idea to a friend who works at TVNZ a couple of years back. It had Winston Peters as a diary owner whose most regular customer was Paul Holmes. It would be like the Odd Couple. From Hell.

Winston in some kind of Apu from The Simpsons role?…

OAG do a good job, but the level of materiality at which they work means that things under so many $million (I can't remember what level specifically) don't really get looked at.

Oh yeah, not really sure why you said this either. Audit NZ audits everything, from every piddling little…

I'm not as politically savvy as some here, by any means

Yes, Jackie, I'd have to agree. Because then you write

I'm bitter and angry and all those things, Craig, because I'm an idealogue. I work with children.

And it tells me that you're obviously quite a bit savvier. And…

Winston Peters . . . it was more than time for him to go. On the other hand, I will miss him for his entertainment value....someone should get him his own show. Pronto.

Good idea – something animated, where he, like, "solves mysteries" and thwarts the schemes of thickly foreign…

What happened to free speech?

Nothing at all, Ian. I'll defend to the death the Sunday Star-Times' absolute right to publish the vile and vapid witterings of Trotter and Michael Laws. But I wouldn't give them any respect for doing so.

And while I don't always discourse in the most…

Now's a chance for the loyal opposition,…

here is urgent business for the government to attend to, to protect NZ from the worst of the recession. Now that we've all done our civic duty and ticked some boxes, the government will change. I would expect the left to at least try to help come up with some…

Winston Peters . . . it was more than time for him to go. On the other hand, I will miss him for his entertainment value....someone should get him his own show. Pronto.

Good idea – something animated, where he, like, "solves mysteries" and thwarts the schemes of thickly foreign…