Hard News: Not yet standing upright
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
But back on flags ... it's good to see that Labour have taken the initiative this morning. Very good mock-up ballot paper, and now there are headlines across a range of media saying Little calls Key's bluff.
That's smarter politics from the opposition. The time-lag in getting there is still an issue, but at least they are getting there.
He's correct though . If NZers want change, then it is worth discussion, and that is how it should be.
Herald has this about it. John Key squirms. -
Parliamentary Questions: Little gets an invitation to tea from Key. So that's a spin-win for Labour.
(but again, I'm shouting at the telly, why doesn't Little think on his feet, reinforce the point with an instant supplementary ... "In the light of that answer, which I'm happy to accept, is the PM free for tea at three? Should I bring the teacups or does he have enough mugs in his cabinet?", etc, etc. Any old one-liner will do. Not just waiting and hoping the press gallery are awake, you have to FEED them ... ).
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
It would be fairly draconian to actually ban the flying of any flag.
I think there's a difference between "legal to use" and "meets legal requirements".
Also, you would think the Navy would want to change their ensign as well, the Canadians did. It's not as if it was a lot of flags to buy.
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Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to
A flag referendum should start with ” Do we want to change the NZ Flag
That's fine so long as "do we want to change the NZ flag" isn't interpreted as the same thing as "do we want to swap the NZ flag for whatever the majority prefer of the options available"?
I would like a new flag. But I prefer the current flag to any of the four currently on offer. If Red Peak were included in the referendum, but one of the other four came out as favourite, I would vote to retain the current flag.
So I'd want a question on the first referendum to be something like "would you like rather have the current flag or your first choice", which would show whether or not people are open to a change.
It wasn't clear to me in reporting this morning whether Labour still intended us to have that choice at a second referendum (though of course if at the first referendum >50% were to vote "no thanks" to a flag change regardless of the alternative flag, there wouldn't be much point in having the second referendum, which would save a bit of money.
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Sacha, in reply to
It wasn't clear to me in reporting this morning whether Labour still intended us to have that choice at a second referendum
Safe to say they were not clear about it themselves. Yet another muffed communication opportunity.
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Deborah, in reply to
Thanks, Sacha. I got a nice e-mail from Chris, and I'm fine with leaving it at that.
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Deborah, in reply to
but again, I’m shouting at the telly, why doesn’t Little think on his feet, reinforce the point with an instant supplementary
Speaking from bitter experience, that's a bloody hard thing to do, when you're the one in the hotseat, even when it's a topic you're very, very familiar with.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Thanks, Sacha. I got a nice e-mail from Chris, and I'm fine with leaving it at that.
I've deleted that derail.
Guys, think about it.
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Sacha, in reply to
Thanks. Plenty of other places to be Beavis and Butthead.
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Sacha, in reply to
do not be a dick.
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OK, let me put some meat on the bones. I'm not out to bash Labour or Little, I just want them to do better. Sometimes, a lot better.
About a million people will have just watched the reports on the 6 pm news (One: Katie Bradford, Three: Brook Sabin). Let's examine them, for Media Studies Stage 1:
It's telly, so what do we need? Visuals. Duly provided by the MPs who stood on the steps of Parliament with Red Peak flags (Jacinda Ardern, Gareth Hughes, David Seymour, maybe others I missed). Good work. Also provided by James Shaw with his tie. Provoked a response from Key, so a point to Shaw.
Telly and radio also want a soundbite. Hence "cup of tea". It cuts through, it's an image, whereas "meeting" isn't. Hence the need to have a line ready (if spontaneity is too hard).
None of this requires any great insight, or Machiavellian cunning. Just basic planning and understanding how it all works. Today's TV news reports were not an accident, they were written by the politicians. Politics in the media is largely predictable, and I expect Labour's leadership (or strategists) to predict it. 90% of Key's spontaneous "witticisms" (witless to me, but not to his voters which is all that matters) are prepared in advance, probably by staff.
To be fair, Labour have improved under Little. But from a face-palming low bar. They need to improve more. And after the Chinese names mess, I'm probably grumpier about this than I should be. They used up a lot of their slack, for no apparent gain.
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Slightly off-topic but as we're touching on media studies... I see The Independent has an interesting typo on its front page. Or maybe the world has forgotten about Abbott already.
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Sacha, in reply to
None of this requires any great insight, or Machiavellian cunning. Just basic planning and understanding how it all works.
And that's the frustrating thing. In any other profession you would be permanently unemployable for being as incompetent as some of these muppets. Where do they find em?
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chris, in reply to
random question: is it ok to use the coma before the and? Anyone?
As a linguist it depends on your predilection for either oral style usage in which people tend to put comma anywhere they’d pause when speaking (this is not a standard but on the net people seem happy to let it slide) or whether you are anal retentive about following grammar prescriptions which require no comma in that position.
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Sacha, in reply to
thank you. how hard was that?
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chris, in reply to
Cumulatively, fairly difficult.
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Sacha, in reply to
sounds like a win, then
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Deborah, in reply to
To be fair, Labour have improved under Little. But from a face-palming low bar. They need to improve more. And after the Chinese names mess, I’m probably grumpier about this than I should be. They used up a lot of their slack, for no apparent gain.
Yes. Amongst the PAS set. That's been one of the somewhat shocking findings for me over the past couple of years as an activist and a candidate. My world views are not in fact shared by a large portion of the people who regard themselves as left (Labour voting, sometimes Green voting, union members, beneficiaries, teachers, medics, social workers, some farmers, all sorts of people who I had assumed would be more-or-less in agreement with my views, and I would be more-or-less in agreement with their views.)
I agree that Labour can do better. But we're getting there. We're back into adequate territory, and laying the groundwork for doing better. And Andrew has done fine on this. He's forced the PM into engagement on it, and the news headlines this evening were all about the PM equivocating.
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Deborah, in reply to
You're a champion, chris. And personally, I'm a big fan of the Oxford comma. In moderation.
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chris, in reply to
I assume it is the Oxford comma (that Deborah just mentioned) that you’re querying, for future reference the general rule as I understand it is:
in a series of three or more terms
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chris, in reply to
He’s forced the PM into engagement on it, and the news headlines this evening were all about the PM equivocating.
Labour is looking fairly well positioned on this:
Labour leader Andrew Little said on Monday the caucus would support Red Peak being included, either as a replacement or an extra option, as long as there was a yes/no vote in the first referendum.
But he said Key was just playing politics with the suggestion that Red Peak could be included, only if Labour played ball.
As someone who is as guilty as sin of being overly critical of Labour and its membership/ policies in the past it took me a while to realise (with a helpful nudge from Sophie and Steve) just how unhelpful this is in the bigger picture, so I’ve been attempting to rein that in.
Until quite recently I’ve been hot and cold on Andrew Little. When he was playing up the beer drinking side of his character I found it a tad hollow. I felt perhaps that that he was trying too hard and that he needn’t, perhaps that’s just my bias.
One of the things I do admire about him is that despite the widespread concerns previously aired regarding his union affiliations/ obligations, he strikes me as his own going concern, not a manufactured puppet by any stretch. I do feel that the more he is allowed to project this natural confidence and individuality through the medial portal, the more realisable a 2017 Labour win will become. I’ve been liking what I’ve been hearing in his recent speeches.
Thank you kindly for your understanding Deborah.
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Deborah, in reply to
As it turns out, because I grew up in New Plymouth at about the same time as Andrew, I happen to have known him for about 35 years. Not well! But it is a very longstanding acquaintanceship/friendship. Even as a very young man, he was kind. He was always a bit serious, but as an adult, that seems to have been leavened by a beautifully dry sense of humour. I think that what you see is what you get with Andrew. There's not persona there - just the man himself.
You can all judge as well as me his successes and ummm... (well, I'm am an aspiring politician afterall)... his things that don't go quite so well as they might. What I can testify to is his basic decency. In addition to that, he's got a real connection with people who don't hang about in political forums on the interwabs. He worked for hardcore unions for a very long time before he became an MP. And I think that very dry sense of humour works very well for him.
As for the flag... on balance, I'd like to see Red Peak get up. I was convinced by the gif that shows Red Peak transforming into a wharenui. And by all the other images that people have used to make Red Peak their own.
Failing Red Peak, I'll be voting no change, in the hopes that means we can have another go at this in 10 or 15 years time, and get it right.
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One of the tests for a flag is how
does it look draped over a coffin...
... it requires a certain gravitas. -
Sacha, in reply to
we can have another go at this in 10 or 15 years time, and get it right
Yep
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