Hard News: Not yet standing upright
316 Responses
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
As the current HoS, the Queen is not obliged to accept any GG as her representative, however. She does, but were she to choose not to there's nothing we could do about it except throw a hissy.
The Constitution Act does not actually require the Queen to appoint a GG; it's implied, not explicit.
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Su Yin Khoo asked: Which of these four flag designs do you feel best represent our refusal to help refugees?
Lyndon Hood answered.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
She's obliged to act on the advice of her Ministers - meaning in the case of NZ, the NZ government.
If a monarch were to start personally refusing to accept advice then that would create an interesting situation. If they did that in the UK, they'd almost certainly come under pressure to climb down, and if they didn't, the UK parliament would depose them (after the fashion of James II).
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
She’s obliged to act on the advice of her Ministers – meaning in the case of NZ, the NZ government.
If a monarch were to start personally refusing to accept advice then that would create an interesting situation. If they did that in the UK, they’d almost certainly come under pressure to climb down, and if they didn’t, the UK parliament would depose them
Oh, it would certainly be very interesting, but there is no statute that mandates it. Only convention, as with most things constitutional in this country.
My point was that because the Queen appoints the GG as their representative, despite the law not mandating such, Parliament's constitutional position vis the GG and on to the Monarch is intact. The flag has nowt to do with that.
Probably my wording was not quite clear, "accept" instead of "appoint" when I meant accept the nominee rather than accept the office. -
daleaway, in reply to
I believe the ghost of what's left of the Government Printer (which subsequently became GP Print, part of Blue Star) was sold to Australians in 2012.
From a press release at that time:
"The New Zealand operations of trans-Tasman printing group Blue Star have been bought by Australian private equity group Mercury Capital and Blue Star shareholder and former manager Tom Sturgess. " -
Um, anyone else think the author of the flag story in this morning's NZ Herald had been perusing this posting and subsequent comments? Even used the same supermarket shelf pic. Coincidence?
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
I first saw that picture of plastic plates on Facebook yesterday morning, four hours before this post was published.
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Vivid, in reply to
"Um, anyone else think the author of the flag story in this morning's NZ Herald "
I wish that someone at the Herald would look up the meaning of gerrymander before they use it again. 5 times in two days, all wrong.
(it's getting like that time journalists were all about 'beltway' issues)
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I first saw it on Sideswipe yesterday morning, which went out at 5am, a good 5 and a half hours before this was posted. Kate Shuttleworth had tweeted it at 6.32pm the night before.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I first saw that picture of plastic plates on Facebook yesterday morning, four hours before this post was published.
Yes, it was all over Twitter too. I couldn't work out who took the original photo.
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
Yes, it was all over Twitter too. I couldn’t work out who took the original photo.
More to the point – I’ll bet they are an imported product (packaged and manufactured overseas) – so one of our potential flags was either designed by a factory shop person in some far away place – or Kyle has a copyright claim to lodge somewhere :-).
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Heh, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to rant on FB about the constitutional implications of changing the flag (none). With extra bonus link to the Flags Act and observation that I doubted the Ministry of Culture would be put in charge of anything constitutionally significant. I actually got some "thank yous" from that.
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How lovely - pupils at Ngaio School obviously got shown the video on flag design when the flag panelist visited their school. And the pupil's top selection from their project follows the template instruction better than any of the panel's official choices!!
See it here;
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Today's Tremain
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Alfie, in reply to
Vote for Hypnoflag as a protest vote
As Katherine pointed out earlier, the STV system effectively negates this option. Assuming fern-fans vote fronds 1,2, 3 then hypnoflag doesn't stand a chance. And your hynoflag vote would then be counted as just another kiwi engaging with Key's chosen process.
Winnie's KOF suggestion seems like the best option so far.
In the meantime, here's another petition supporting our current flag -- 42,500 signatures and counting.
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I disagree Steven. It would be saying "I vote for Key's 4th choice" which is hardly a protest, especially as the odds are pre-loaded against hypnoflag.
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Toby Manhire swings in behind Red Peak in his Herald column today.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford, A day ago
Surely NZ deserves a flag that anyone could knit at home!~~
I suggested before the design process started that we should go for a Lenticular flag - one that changes as it flies (as you see it from a different angle).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printingYou can do that with knitting e.g.
http://delightedhands.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/moms-shadow.htmlAnd it has amazing possibilities when combined with the hypno flag
http://giphy.com/gifs/animated-psychedelic-hypnotic-Z8fmnqFAHAdeo~~~~
Yea, the hypnoflag is basically screwed unless it gets over 50% of first preference votes.We should be able to put all our preference on one flag and it count the same as people who split their votes across the fern flags.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
We should be able to put all our preference on one flag and it count the same as people who split their votes across the fern flags.
We can. You vote 1 on Hypnoflag and then nothing else. That way no other choices get your vote.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
I believe the ghost of what's left of the Government Printer (which subsequently became GP Print, part of Blue Star) was sold to Australians in 2012.
I couldn't find that yesterday but yes I remember now, cheers.
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while yes, no one else gets your vote, they would only get your vote once your choice had been eliminated as the lowest polling flag.
These are single transferable votes, your vote only is contribiuted to one flag at a time, not fractions spread across multiple flags
(STV, where you're electing multiple candidates, say 2 flags, does end up with fractional votes being spread around after one of the candidates you've chosen has been elected - but not in this case)
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
one that changes as it flies
that could fly…
maybe not a knitted ‘Steriogram’ flag
(I hadn’t realised this was a Michael Gondry video)
but a visually knotted ‘stereogram’ flag could be the go (above ^ ) …
if ya can’t make it ‘pop’ – ya can’t be a citizen! -
Mike O'Connell, in reply to
What an 'annoying' article! Not an immediate personal choice but Toby's got a strong point (citing Rowan Simpson) with Red Peak:
it looks like a flag, not a logo, and illustrates the point by placing it, and the officially shortlisted options, alongside some other great flags. It is simple enough to be drawn by a child - one of the criteria emphasised by the panel - yet there is genuine substance; the historic, cultural, mythological and even topographic references are there if you want them.
I am reminded of the flag of Antigua and Barbuda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Antigua_and_Barbuda#/media/File:Flag_of_Antigua_and_Barbuda.svgAdopted in 1967, it's full of symbolism (e.g. the Caribbean, African origins of people) which match the colouring - the sun, sea, and sand and the (triangle) V-shape for victory. it was the winning design of around 600 entries.
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Brazil seems to do ok even though their flag breaks all the rules - tiny writing, etc.
I don't really have a problem with any design of flag, it's the process and goal, which seems to be all around the idea that NZ needs better "corporate branding" so people will holiday here and buy our exports. I don't think people really care that much - otherwise Aussie companies would take the "proudly Australian made" logos off the product they ship to NZ
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Red Peak was my fave out of the 40. Distinctive, strong, proper use of colour, and easy enough to draw! And as Toby says, it looks like a flag … rather than a logo. That said, it’d lend itself as a design element of things like sporting uniforms really well.
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