Hard News: Not yet standing upright
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On the logo front… they’re just discussing on the radio at the moment, this:
http://www.swimming.org.nz/visageimages/Swimmers%20Resources/HPSNZ/HPSNZ%20White%20Logo.jpg
Which rather proves the point.
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As I understand it, a citizens initiated referendum for example to replace the contender flag with the laser kiwi for the final vote, would have to be responded within 3 months (so before the final vote) but the referendum on replacing the candidate itself could be scheduled for a long time after the final vote (rendering that particular non-binding referendum even more moot)
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a citizens initiated referendum to cancel the priminister
Yeah revolutions are just messy!
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Spitting votes will happen when you have two very similar choices. So those who would vote for a good fern/stars flag, will have their votes split. Instead of say 40% for such a flag get 2 X 20%. For the final four, Mr Key should have chosen a good fern/star one and 3 others totally different in style.
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sandra, in reply to
Andrew Little’s no vote at all option is really the worst – we have more than enough apathy to go around
I quite agree – thought that was a very silly thing to say (even if I don’t care for any of the flag options). Does he want people not to vote in a general election too?
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Does he want people not to vote in a general election too?
Pretty clear he doesn't want Labour voters to vote.
But yeah NOT voting for a flag is the stupidest idea
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
Spitting votes will happen when you have two very similar choices. So those who would vote for a good fern/stars flag, will have their votes split.
Not in an STV vote - more to the point the ferns votes will come together if people rank the three ferns in consecutive order. So that whole "split the vote" idea doesn't work based on the way they've structured the referendum. It would work were it a first-past-the post referendum, but it's not - it's rank your preference, or STV.
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At least a protest vote against the process should be effective in round 2.
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Alfie, in reply to
Right, let's try this.
Thanks Matthew... even the Facebook-deprived can view that now. ;-)
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Does he want people not to vote in a general election too?
Sigh...
Andrew Little has made the point that this is a trivial piece of nonsense invented by a trivial Prime Minister to hide real problems, I tend to agree. I wont bother with the first referendum, it is pointless, a vote to retain the current flag in the second referendum is all that is needed.
It has been proven, as far as I am concerned, that the design of the flag was a total crock of shit, an amateur drawing competition at best, meaningless input and even more meaningless output.
We have a choice of lame logos from a wunch of bankers from which to choose a meaningful flag?
I think that all those involved in this soulless distraction have not a clue about what a flag is and what it stands for. You may as well ask me to lay down my life for a Coca~Cola sign.
Total bollocks and not worth a wank.
John Key should just fuck off to Hawaii and tell them their flag is shit. See how well that works out for you grasping and greedy little man.... -
Steve Barnes, in reply to
But yeah NOT voting for a flag is the stupidest idea
Almost as stupid as voting for one.
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This is a classic use of the Mere Exposure Effect - middle NZ is being played to effect a pre-determined outcome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect
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Hen Mackenzie, in reply to
I was saying the very same thing last night. Let's get an alternative sorted before flag debate 2025.
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Vivid, in reply to
Regarding the Hundertwasser flag, the reason it wasn't submitted is most likely the same reason why the derivative flag was pulled out for copyright infringement.
The Hundertwasser heirs are very protective and very litigious . They even stepped in and nixed a poster for a kids holiday art program in Masterton. They refuse the use of words on pictures of his, and all sorts of strange rules around use of his work. Things that would be fair dealing here. -
Steve Barnes, in reply to
It’s not to late to change the leader.
I hope you mean the revolting John Key. Don't get suckered into thinking that Labour has a problem, it simply isn't true.
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daleaway, in reply to
For Those in Peril on the Sea is also sung as "Lest We Forget".
You'll have heard it in many an ANZAC Day service. -
Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to
The Hundertwasser heirs are very protective and very litigious . They even stepped in and nixed a poster for a kids holiday art program in Masterton. They refuse the use of words on pictures of his, and all sorts of strange rules around use of his work. Things that would be fair dealing here.
But wouldn't parliamentary sovereignty trump copyright? If parliament passed a law saying "this is the NZ flag", then so long as it made a token payment to the estate so as not to confiscate property without compensation, wouldn't the heirs be out of luck?
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On Gordon Walters-esque designs by Michael Smythe, I've got a wee bit of a grumble.
Way back in 1990, The Listener ran a design competition for a new national flag, publishing the best in a series of articles over subsequent weeks (Gordon Campbell seemed to be the main journo involved). I submitted a little over 20 designs and 6 of them were based on Gordon Walters' stylised koru paintings (I had his book out of the library at the time. I also used Maori artist Sandy Adsett's paintings/graphic design as inspiration for some of my other submissions).
Michael Smythe was among the panel of judges for that 1990 Listener competition.
Fast-forward 15 or so years and Smythe turns up in the cover story of a 2004 or 2005 edition of The Listener not only promoting his Gordon Walters-inspired designs for a new flag, but quite blatantly suggesting he was the first to ever think of it. (he repeated the process in a more recent edition of the same periodical). Now the last thing I want to do is sound like I've been nursing some sort of bitter, emotionally-overwrought grudge about it all these years - as a few family members and friends will tell you, I simply grumbled a wee bit over the following couple of days - but, you know, it does kind of offend your inate sense of fairness and right and wrong.
Then again, by 2005 I'd decided a Walters-style koru probably wouldn't work all that well as a flag, so it was only a minor issue of irritation at the brazenness of it all for me.
Still think Sandy Adsett's art-cum-graphic-design would transfer really well to a new national flag.
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Just stumbled upon this.
Worth looking at 25 mins in.
How the Sachi's gave the UK Thatcher and they lying toads of the Conservative Party.
Lord McAlpine "they said "can you afford it?" we said of course we can"
Later, when the bills were due they said "well, look at it this way, if you want the big business accounts then they won't hire you if they think you lost us the election"
So they attacked the Labour party, relentlessly.
Sounds familiar?.
This is where the rot set in... -
Hah. John Key announced his preferred Kyle Lockwood design the same day he announced the flag process Quelle surprise. . http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10619557/Two-step-flag-referendum-outlined-by-PM-John-Key
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andin, in reply to
the rot set in…
Nah the vampire bats and sticklebacks amongst us got on top for a while
cant be for much longer.
We could torture them with mirrors MWAHAHAHA -
Rowan Simpson makes a good case for the Dustin flag to be added.
One thing we can all do is sign the ActionStation open letter.
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The initial shortlist of 20c piece designs for NZ's first decimal currency. It was only after the designs were leaked that the public was given an input, and James Berry's completely new designs prevailed. While the Francis Shurrock footballer was pretty much universally derided back then, it's not hard to imagine it getting the thumbs up from the likes of Key's flag panel experts
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There is no other country in the world that has a pure black and white flag - yet we get two black and white options out of four - just another design oddity about this final selection.
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Just to note, as much as folks have been bitching about the waste of $26 million for this process ...
Consider the cost of actually changing the flag
Anyone want to guess how much it will cost to change every iteration of the flag in every government agency?
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