Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

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  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Well yes, derail I grant you. But certainly relevant to the whole question of “what things might help change police culture from being a bunch of lying shitwads, to keeping the peace faithfully and diligently … without favour or affection, malice or ill-will?” On that front, have to say I much prefer the UK oath to ours. Where does ours mention fairness, integrity, diligence, human rights or respect?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    The UK still expects graduates to start on the beat, but they get accelerated promotion. They tried an "officer class" in the 1920s and it wasn't a success, but is being considered again.

    Mind you, the current system doesn't seem to work that well and pretty much all militaries have an officer cadre.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    News: Matthew Hooton kicked out of the Radio Live studio by Willie and JT for giving them what-for over their interview of Amy. At least I think that's what happened. Sounded acrimonious enough that they cut to commercial break suddenly.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Well yes, derail I grant you.

    Talking about how the police force could be improved isn’t really a derail*. (Talking about how Ladies Can’t Grip bloody well is, though.)

    *I am generally pro-derail. Unless it’s for very obvious “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” reasons.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The audio of Matthew Hooton walking out/being kicked out of the studio by Jackson and Tamihere:

    The longer version is here from about 2.05.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And in you not could make this shit up news, the police have threatened Martyn Bradbury with six months' imprisonment if he did not take down an image parodying police inaction.

    Gang-rape 13 year-olds? A little chat. Mock the police? You're going to jail.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Meanwhile, Giovanni has been contacting Radio Live advertisers.

    As a consequence, the AA has pulled its ads from the Willie and JT show.

    Yellow has pulled its advertising from Radio Live altogether.

    Both organisations cited both the content of the original interview and the nature of the subsequent "apology".

    Meanwhile John Drinnan reports that a staff meeting has taken place at the behest of Radio Live employees angry at the station's response.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Your use of the conditional in that sentence is charmingly optimistic, Kyle.

    Yup, I know. There are of course plenty of times that victims withdraw complaints or don't make complaints themselves. It's no doubt a shit of a process to go through.

    But you wouldn't be doubling down on the police in this instance. There's a facebook meme waiting to happen of photos of women wearing ordinary clothes, and text of "are these the 'rape me' clothes you were talking about officer?"

    Quotas pretty much invariably get achieved by dropping recruitment standards

    I don't know how police recruitment works now, I worked there briefly 20 years ago. At which time they were actively encouraging female/pacific island/asian etc applicants. To do this they were investing in advertising and targeting those groups to get more of them to apply. Post-secondary education was also becoming more important.

    At that stage it was (I think) a three stage process. You completed a written application to make sure you were eligible (no serious convictions etc). You then did a physical test which included a run, skin fold, weight, height etc. If you passed that then you had an interview with a commissioned officer.

    The police are funded to train X number of new recruits each year, divided into wings. From memory recruitment presented more suitable applicants than was required any year, so they got to pick those that they wanted. I think they probably were taking almost all suitable females, ethnic minorities, and then picking the white males that they wanted. But the standard stayed the same regardless of the fact that they were targeting certain people to increase their numbers in the force.

    Certainly at that time, police was a real heirarchy of having to do your time in order to progress. New recruits would typically get appointed to the old Central Auckland or Manukau districts for a year of beat work, regardless of where they lived. You also had to do time in the control room early in your career. You had to pass your sergeants exam, but then you had to wait for an NCO position to come up before you could take up the role. Detectives exams were difficult and lots of police had literacy issues with it. You had to serve in the less popular units (car theft, fraud) before you got into the more interesting work (homicide etc).

    And you definitely had to be willing to move yourself and your family to progress your career, numerous times. That's more likely to be a problem for female officers.

    As much as recruitment has been difficult for them, I think people leaving the force is as much an issue. Their best and brightest have good prospects and police training and 5-10 years in the force is a good launching pad for a career.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    In other news, Gio has managed to lobby several of the sponsors of Radio Live to pull the pin.

    Doh, s.....nap.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    FWIW, Giovanni and others mightn't be aware of the successes of the "Sack Alan Jones" movement that formed after he commented that Julia Gillard's recently deceased father died of shame. It's here for those interested https://www.facebook.com/SackAlanJones

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I remember nurses once arguing for pay equity with police. I’d extend that analogy to the health sector in general.

    Perhaps too broad a comparison? (And surely pay equity with doctors?) Becoming a doctor (unless the system has changed since I've been away) requires all potential doctors doing the same MB ChB then their intern/junior years in a hospital before specialising, doesn't it? Seems pretty much the same as cops all doing the same Police College course then their required couple of years on traffic and general duties before specialising. It seems to make sense to me to require all wannabe cops and doctors to have the same broad, general training and experience before specialising - after all, what seems like a good idea when you first sign up might turn out to not be so well suited to you once you've actually got a bit of experience.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    the police have threatened Martyn Bradbury with six months’ imprisonment if he did not take down an image parodying police inaction.

    I did wonder if that might happen. He hacked on of their recruitment posters, I think. Jesus wept.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Roger Lacey, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The audio of Matthew Hooton walking out/being kicked out of the studio by Jackson and Tamihere:

    Mediaworks complaints page: http://www.mediaworks.co.nz/MediaWorks/MakingaComplaint.aspx
    or sturner@mediaworks.co.nz for the Group Managing Director and bmulgrew@mediaworks.co.nz for the CEO

    Whatakataka Bay Surf Club… • Since Apr 2008 • 148 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Gang-rape 13 year-olds? A little chat. Mock the police? You’re going to jail.

    That is... perfect. A beautiful little microcosm of Seriously, What In The Fuck Is Wrong With You Guys?

    Meanwhile, Giovanni has been contacting Radio Live advertisers.

    He's been tireless! I am so impressed.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Henry Barnard, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Will they, like male officers, come from part of society that thinks that the standard of consent for women or girls who wear short skirts and/or drink alcohol is lower than for sober women in loose denim coveralls? These views are by no means restricted to men.

    True enough ... and I take the points raised by others. And thanks Fooman for the link to "What stops women becoming top cops?" link. I see that Anne Tolley also contributed to the quota issue:

    Police Minister Anne Tolley – the fourth woman in the portfolio in the past 25 years – is vehemently opposed to tokenism:

    "I've talked to a few of the female officers and they don't want any favours, thank you. They are adamant that they have to be given the time to gain that experience so that they are being promoted on merit. Because that is just a death knell if there is any hint of them being promoted just because they are women."

    and yet, in the same piece, Sandra Manderson:

    But she can't see a female commissioner being appointed during her career. "They are not getting into those top jobs, that's the bottom line isn't it? And it's not good enough. It's not easy getting through. Each regime, they – the administration, the bosses – have their own people they select. There is a type, it's called men, that's the type.

    How, then, to deal with this conundrum? I think everyone wants a policing system and a justice system that deals with rape and rape victims differently from the way it has been (and is) being dealt with now, where - if the reports are true - even some police participate in asking the victims, as Craig said, to `not exist at all'.

    Palmerston North • Since Aug 2013 • 65 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to Dastardly Bounder,

    I have a fifteen-year-old daughter. Words have failed me completely.

    When I told her this morning about the latest developments my very smart, very fair-minded, very socially-aware girl's reply was "Fuck the police."

    How the fuck is ANY girl or woman who has been raped supposed to have ANY faith in the police to do their goddamn job now? It's not as if getting rape victims to make a complaint is a walk in the park in the first place. The damage from this entire debacle is incalculable.

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    But why do you need that same physical fitness if you’re visiting a burgled home the day after the event? Or taking witness statements?

    My Dad spent much of his police career driving a desk, but he always ensured the he drove a car with lights and sirens and a radio. Once as a district commander he was driving along the southern motorway and began pursuit of a burglar that overtook him. Pursued him to the Manukau shopping centre where he abandoned the car and pursued him on foot across the car park. Caught him with a breaking and entering kit and arrested him.

    Better work stories? But I do know that police officers move around their jobs a fair bit, so while you're running a desk one year, you might be a sergeant next year and out in charge of a squad on the streets. They use un-sworn staff for people who are never going to need to do 'police work'.

    ETA2: I can’t see why you’d need to have a sworn/non-sworn distinction. You could have specialties and still have them all sworn.

    Non-sworn staff are much cheaper. Recruiting a sworn staff member into general work takes about three years, including the recruitment process, 6 months of training (during which they get well paid), and then their compulsory beat work etc. Must cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars each. Even if you streamlined it they need to be trained to be police officers.

    Unsworn staff are just ordinary administration staff like any other business. They can be recruited via advertising and can start as soon as they give notice to their old job.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to Hebe,

    Thank you to all the men in the thread recognising in their comments the culture change needed.

    Yes. It's balm to my aching heart.

    Thank you, all of you.

    You are making things better for our sons as well as our daughters.

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And in you not could make this shit up news, the police have threatened Martyn Bradbury with six months’ imprisonment if he did not take down an image parodying police inaction.

    Gang-rape 13 year-olds? A little chat. Mock the police? You’re going to jail.

    What the hell is wrong with these guys? Very pithy comparison Russell .

    Northland • Since Nov 2006 • 510 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to Brodie Davis,

    As you see complaints from Saudi Arabia of woman in full burqa’s still being molested on the street.

    It's their fault for being out in the streets instead of at home, the slags.

    /sarcasm

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover,

    I wish I could be a bit more excited about what Martyn Bradbury says on this but it’s difficult to see it as anything other than utter hypocrisy given what I’ve been told about his treatment of women who’ve been raped.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 355 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Meanwhile, Giovanni has been contacting Radio Live advertisers.

    As a consequence, the AA has pulled its ads from the Willie and JT show.

    Yellow has pulled its advertising from Radio Live altogether.

    Both organisations cited both the content of the original interview and the nature of the subsequent “apology”.

    Meanwhile John Drinnan reports that a staff meeting has taken place at the behest of Radio Live employees angry at the station’s response.

    Onya, Gio. Follow the money, and hit 'em where it hurts most - in the wallet.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And in you not could make this shit up news, the police have threatened Martyn Bradbury with six months’ imprisonment if he did not take down an image parodying police inaction.

    Gang-rape 13 year-olds? A little chat. Mock the police? You’re going to jail.

    Once again, it's all about the 'uncovered meat', and never about the 'young, dumb and full of cum'.

    Just as well LED monitors are cheap right now, because all this has been tempting me to break mine in half.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • James W,

    Does New Zealand not have a parody defence like in the U.S.?

    The link Bomber tweeted that they sent him states:

    A person commits an offence who, without reasonable excuse, carries on an activity under an operating name that includes the word “Police” or the words “New Zealand Police”, in a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police.

    Surely satire or protest is a "reasonable excuse". No one is going to think that's a real police ad, and if they do, boy does that say something about public perception of the police.

    Since Jul 2008 • 136 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Danielle,

    Matthew might have to consider and fully accept that the police were deliberate lying shitwads in this case.

    I thought I’d made it pretty explicitly clear that I think they’ve fallen far short of what I and society expect. However, until you can provide me evidence that this entire saga is about glossing over the involvement of a cop’s son, you’re not going to get me to concede anything like what you’re seeking. Fuck’s sake, I even suggested that the failure to pursue could be about protecting a police district’s numbers, which would be a whole hell of a lot bigger an issue than not chasing some cop’s kid, even when it’s for serial rape.

    [UNFATHOMABLY STUPID AND INSENSITIVE METAPHOR DELETED HERE. BACK THE FUCK OFF ON THIS SORT OF TALK OR I WILL BAN YOU – RB] and my unwillingness to join the trendy pile-on rankles you, but I’m not going to leap to any particular conclusion without evidence in support. Which means I’m quite happy to say they’ve lied about their progress after Louise Nichols, in as many words. But for more than that, show me the fucking proof!

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

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