Hard News: Limping Onwards
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Winnie is doing the west Auckland circuit too.Saw the billboard around Universal Drive, Henderson, announcing a meeting.
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
I really hope you're right Che, but Winston has been pretty active on the sly
Oh, he's back alright, and not shy about saying so. It's not so much "on the sly" as he hasn't gained enough traction to get much in the way of coverage so far (other than the BOP Times, which evidently gives him half a page a week!).
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Rex Widerstrom, in reply to
We re-evaluate our views at *every* election, local body or national. Thus far, we have had no reason to change our votes
Then you don't fall into the "non thinking voter" category. I didn't mean to imply (nor, I think, did I) that everyone who consistently votes one way - be it National, Labour or whatever - does so without thinking.
Equally, though, I'd suggest that Labour voters here (and indeed any voters here) are atypical of the majority.
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Greville Whittle, in reply to
Rex, I’m with Islander on this one. I have always voted Labour but must admit that I very much liked when MMP was introduced because it meant that I could not only vote Labour but I could vote for the best ELECTORATE MP
I worked for Consumer Link/Colmar Brunton in the mid 90s, when I was a student in Palmerston North. One of the surveys we had to do was on MMP. I have never seen so many staunch National voters praise MMP because they could still vote National and vote for Steve Maharey at the same time.
Until then I had no idea how respected he was, virtually no one bagged him,
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
And they'll have Henry VIII powers for five years. Apparently it's international best practice - not in many countries with written constitutions - it would be impossible for a US government to legislate rule by decree, ever.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
Oh, he's back alright, and not shy about saying so. It's not so much "on the sly" as he hasn't gained enough traction to get much in the way of coverage so far
yeah, the Che's Anecdotameter isn't feeling it. i can see that there's a chance he could get the 90k votes needed, and there's still time for the opportunistic media exploit, but... my current money in on the no.
once again, would hate to have to stand corrected.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
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the ex-Nat MP who tried to censor the Internet is about to serve time. And his wife is a handbagger to boot.
Much as I am amongst the first to bag a bent MP, speshly a Nat. I have found this to be quite a sad case. I came across this company several years ago and was impressed with their vision, not so much the Military stuff but the entire concept.
Unmanned rescue helicopters would save lives but this was more than that. The development of a modern two stroke diesel powered aircraft with a flight time exceeding 30 hours was a phenomenal challenge and these guys were on to it. This was world leading technology and even the judge admitted as such, who knows what went wrong, I suspect there was mischief afoot as is the case of any military development done in this country. After all their hard work and development to be sent to jail, shit, I'd be swinging more than a handbag. Where is Mr Smiley Wavey on this one eh? -
Rich Lock, in reply to
I find these lucid and impassioned refutations of arguments that absolutely no-one has put forward to be utterly engrossing.
You mean, apart from the several people on this thread who have done exactly that, including, amusingly enough, right after my post. Plus the extensive discussion, right here, of Clare Curran's 'Standard' post (which admittedly I haven't read)
Can we have more please?
I'll do you a bulk discout, plus 10% off if you pay cash - no need for the taxman to know, eh? Where would you like it delivered?
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
You mean, apart from the several people on this thread who have done exactly that, including, amusingly enough, right after my post. Plus the extensive discussion, right here, of Clare Curran's 'Standard' post (which admittedly I haven't read)
What you don't seem to grasp is that complaining of media bias and operating with the media that we have aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has said the media is biased, let's sit on our hands. Least of all Labour's strategists and comms people. You seem to think that media analysis leads to inaction. Somehow.
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JLM, in reply to
- ACT disappear – agreed. you can’t imagine National not being willing and able to undermine Hide in Epsom.
I know someone who predicts that ACT will lose Epsom, but gain Tamaki. Is this possible (I’m not an Aucklander)?
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Rich Lock, in reply to
What you don't seem to grasp is that complaining of media bias and operating with the media that we have aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has said the media is biased, let's sit on our hands. Least of all Labour's strategists and comms people. You seem to think that media analysis leads to inaction. Somehow.
A slightly incorrect reading of my position. To clarify: I don't think they're sitting around doing nothing, I think they're doing a really, really piss-poor job of dealing with a known and entirely predictable problem. And they don't seem to have the imagination to come up with an alternative or parallel strategy.
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Sacha, in reply to
I know someone who predicts that ACT will lose Epsom, but gain Tamaki. Is this possible
Yes. Nats in Tamaki will do as they're told by their party and vote Act as long as they don't have to vote for Rodney.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Where is Mr Smiley Wavey on this one eh?
I'm guessing they've long since disowned him, after he broke away and formed a new party with Ross Meurant.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
A slightly incorrect reading of my position.
Not really. You presented these as alternatives:
what is the best way to proceed?
1) Continue to sit around and bitch about how biased the media is.
2) Actually work up a strategy for dealing with it and getting the message out there in clear and simple terms.
They are patently not. And 'the Left', as you so generically put it, most certainly needs to continue to agitate for better media (including: more public service oriented news and current affairs programmes a-la TVNZ7), and get its message out there in clear and simple terms through the media that we have.
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Even Chris Trotter is not amused.
IT'S STAGGERING, the unabashed cynicism of so many of Labour's defenders. As rumour builds on rumour and the indefatigable ferrets of the blogosphere burrow deeper into the political laundry basket, Labour's apologists dismiss the political ramifications of the Hughes Affair with a courtier's shrug.
"Goff's perfectly safe", they say with world-weary certitude, "because who the hell would want to take over the job now? Far better to let Goff lose the election and pick things up from there."
It's only when you begin to decode this statement that the true extent of these apologists' cynical indifference to the fate of Labour's supporters becomes apparent.
...
Because, even in the most selfish and deeply cynical terms, allowing National to win by default is a disastrous strategy.
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If ACT go down the tubes, fingers crossed that they do, and Winnie comes back from the dead with a few list seats, and, The election is a close call. What is a smiling assassin to do? go back on his word and snuggle up to Doctor No or hand Goff the keys to the treasury?
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
I’m guessing they’ve long since disowned him, after he broke away and formed a new party with Ross Meurant.
I was actually thinking from a business perspective. If this could have been a winner then smiley could have held him up as a shining example of a Kiwi entrepreneur but if spooks were involved where is John boys ambishusnesss now?
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Apparently deviations from the party line are because of “astroturfing”. Yes, really. Not because of abysmal performance or anything.
I know a troll-farmer like Prentice won’t understand this, but yeah… I’d actually like to see an Opposition that isn’t a desperately unfunny joke for a number of reasons.
1) I don’t count Prentice among them, but there are a fair number of Labour Party people (Jordan Carter, Tony Milne among others) who I respect. A lot. They’re smart, they give a shit, they work damn hard – and I know what it’s like slogging your guts out at the flax roots and still find yourself cringing every time your alleged leadership open their gobs. Wouldn’t wish it on a dog.
2) Let’s be honest, as a Tory I’m perfectly happy to have a Labour Party that couldn’t get arrested at a P lab raid.
But I’m a citizen before I’m a partisan, and a democracy that doesn’t have effective checks and balances on the executive and government of the day we’re all in trouble. Because no party, or government, has a monopoly on insight and wisdom.
But, hey, on the partisan tip, if the left’s alleged public intellectuals and opinion formers want to get stuck in American paleo-con level denial, far be it from me to interfere.
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The present problem for Labour I feel stems from Helen Clarke and Michael Cullen not sticking around long enough to help bed in successors and assist with developing the opposition mindset (running gear) and strategy, what Goff got left with was a job no one appeared to really want.
So with 2 1/2 year in opposition Labour have not mastered the task – I hope they can get their shit together and start building something credible. Listening to the Radio News this evening Goof was still banging on – it should have been put to bed last week – and they should have moved on.
I can’t see Labour getting any direction until after the election - would love to be proved wrong..
I can see the AB’s winning the world cup and I don’t think it will affect the voting – it is not as if a large section of the voting public can even afford a ticket.
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Sacha, in reply to
not sticking around long enough to help bed in successors and assist with developing the opposition mindset
Goff, King and others have been there for years.
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Kracklite, in reply to
Meanwhile in Standardland, Mr Lprent says nothing to see here, move along.
Put the mouse down and step away from the keyboard!
Really, what did you expect? There is no signal-to-noise ratio to consider wit’ T’ Standard. It’s all noise, sometimes simulating signal. When they’re not repulsively allowing all the worst bigotry “for a good cause”, they’re floating down a river in Africa.
As a number of people have been saying here, I too am a “tribal” Labour voter, but I will admit my bias against Goff since the Douglas, er, sorry, Lange administration when he and King were the Blessed Brides of Our Saviour the Lord Roger in the 80's (remember them?). I hoped for some pragmatism, an ability to move with the times, but his authoritarian streak was all too painfully obvious in Clark’s government and while finally I expected him to be a prick, I never expected him to be such a bumbling embarrassment as well.
I suspect that a lot of the uproar on the left over the Hughes affair is not specifically about that matter in particular, but represents a dam of frustration finally bursting. Goff has not performed well, he has apparently betrayed the inclusive social democratic ideals of Labour in pursuit of the chimerical “Waitakere Man” and in doing so – and even, amazingly, alienating Chris frakkin’ Trotter, which is truly incredible (to wit: IT’S STAGGERING, the unabashed cynicism of so many of Labour’s defenders... blah blah)
The wider blame belongs with the Labour Party too, however. I can haz opposition nao? Despite the Moustache’s suggestion that allowing a National victory by default is a bad thing, I really don’t see anything in the present Goff/King Labour party that I can support… and I really don’t think that I’m the only one thinking that.
You might say that the Hughes affair is a beat-up, but perhaps a lot of the reaction from the left is really the release of frustration that been building for quite some time now?
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I hope I've made clear I think the problem is broader than Goff. However, Standard poster 'Pascal's Bookie' on another of their threads this morning is convincingly pragmatic about dumping him:
If Goff isn’t rolled within the next few days, the narrative will dictate that the sole reason is that any would be challengers were too scared. That they didn’t want a loss in Nov to damage their longer term career hopes. This is, again, absolutely toxic.
Some bugger needs to step up. The only way to draw a line under this is to replace the leadership.
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Changing the leadership will dynamite this narrative and create a new one. It’s not a gauranteed sucess by any stretch, but that way there is at least hope. All the shit so far can be slated to Goff’s poor leadership. That’s tough and unfair on Goff, but it uses the narrative to your advantage.Goff and King took a massive gamble and it didn’t pay off.
Mulligans are for losers and for friendly matches with no stakes. This is not such a match.
They need to pay the price.
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Kracklite, in reply to
While I have my issues with Clark... which I can put aside in consideration of her (in retrospect, increasingly obvious) competence and general drift, I do feet that that was her serious fault - a hesitation in preparing a succeeding generation.
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Jacqui Dunn, in reply to
watermelon it is
Sorry. Explain, please. What mean you thus? :)
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