Hard News: Democracy Night
773 Responses
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DexterX, in reply to
Thats more than a little rich?
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Elsewhere, the search begins for Labour's Next Top Leader
You is my wife now?
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
he's so viscous...
I almost forgot – being a target for gob.
Glad I got that off my chest.Hardly the most phlegmatic response...
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Heh John Key just Godwin’d himself on breakfast TV :).
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John Armstrong, in reply to
Heh John Key just Godwin’d himself on breakfast TV :).
Bit more info for those of us at work?
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Wet behind ears Nat MP and gardener Maggie Barry declares that Auckland's mayor should respect her authoritah
While it's not for me to criticise the internal selection criteria of a party I'll never vote for, much less be a member of, there is something about the way that bloody gardening woman was parachuted into my electorate that really gets under my skin.
Fortunately I turned up later in the day and missed that particular speech at the Wilson home. There were many children present who would have learned some new words that wouldn't have endeared me to their parents.
For those that didn't read to the end:
On a more national level, she has taken a keen interest in the Pike River Mine tragedy.
Michael Monk, 21, the son of her cousin Bernie Monk, was one of the 29 victims.
"The tragedy was a cathartic moment for me. I didn't want to be sitting on the sidelines reporting, but making a difference," Barry said. She said she wanted to see the bodies brought out to give families closure.
And she wants to see mining resume at Pike River.
"There is $30 billion of coal there.
"If it doesn't reopen, the 29 won't be the only casualties – the West Coast economy will be one, too."
The blood price must be paid to keep the engines of industry running, right Mags?
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Describing MMP as the system the Germans put in place after Hitler and …
dun
dun
dun
They haven’t had a majority (stable) government since.Pity the journalist (snort) didn’t point out that Germany is one of the richest countries in the world and there might be some connection.
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Now the CEO of NZ ltd. has got that beastly diversion of democracy out of the way and he’s been re-annointed, he does seem rather irritated with MMP, he has come back to it a couple of times since the election. I suppose it has dawned on him that it means he hasn’t just been handed a jeweled sceptre and crown and allowed to get on with the major restructing he has in mind. They don’t do things this way in the corporate world you know!
They had a bizarre story on Stuff yesterday as well where they did a vox-pop of people moaning about MMP.
I think we need to have a referendum on the voting system and see what the people think of that German MMP rubbish!!!
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Pity the journalist (snort) didn’t point out that Germany is one of the richest countries in the world and there might be some connection.
Also that we just had a free and fair democratic referendum on this particular matter, and it looks like The People (remember them, John?) like it enough to keep it around for a while so STFU John.
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John Armstrong, in reply to
Cheers. Brings to mind an election night conversation in which a friend said that she had voted for national because she felt that in these difficult times what is needed is a decisive majority government unencumbered by the need to consult / negotiate.
But isn't consultation / negotiation the fundamental point of democracy, and (within reason) the consultier the better? I guess the nub is where you draw the 'within reason' line..
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
there is something about the way that bloody gardening woman was parachuted into my electorate that really gets under my skin.
And if it’s really that big an issue for people vote for someone else. I could be bitchy and note that the electors of what are now Rongotai and Hutt South had no qualms when their current MPs were “parachuted” in after the electors of Horowhenua and Hamilton West (!) showed them the door in 1990, but there you go. And here we are. I guess they think Ms. King and Mr. Mallard haven't totally sucked over the last eighteen years.
(And I could get really bitchy and point out that the current presumptive front-runner for the Labour leadership doesn’t even live in his electorate.)
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Cheers. Brings to mind an election night conversation in which a friend said that she had voted for national because she felt that in these difficult times what is needed is a decisive majority government unencumbered by the need to consult / negotiate.
The same reasons likely drove Rob Muldoon to preserve jobs and the welfare state at any cost.
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Danielle, in reply to
Our illustrious PM spends a lot of time in Huapai, too, I imagine. (Which is why my flipping off his electorate office every week as I drive past on the way to Parakai may not have had the intended result of bringing down his government. Curses!)
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And, if the Maori Party do decide to rejoin National in government, what’s going to happen when (if?) Tariana and Pita step down during the term and we get by-elections for Te Tai Hauāuru and Tamaki Makaurau? The Maori Party really are between a rock and hard place.
That is an interesting point. I'm going to guess that at least one of them will be asked to wait until it's close enough to the election that there isn't a by-election.
But Prebble – with the protection of Parliamentary privilege – lost and then accused the Surveyor General of corruption. What an arsehole
But at least he was consistent about it. The arsehole that is.
He’s been picking the new Labour leader himself. All right “desperately” is overegging it. “Hopefully” is closer to true – because they surely can’t think the Maori Party so stupid as to enter serious negotiations until the numbers are actually known.
They quite happily met with him and then left the party leadership in further meetings with him a couple of days ago to get down to business. They know that at most National will lose one seat, no point waiting a fortnight to get that confirmed as it doesn't change anything significant as Dunne and Banks still get them the numbers that they need.
What might happen next time is National drop a few points making it very difficult for them to form a government without making a lot of concessions to a lot of parties who have more seats in parliament.
This is the problem for National in 2014 - coalition partners. All three of their current ones look in trouble, and they're going to find it hard to do a deal with NZ First.
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Ivy League...
And the former broadcaster (and gardening aficionado) also affirmed her support for the Puhoi-Wellsford motorway extension. She attacked those who have labelled it the “holiday highway”.
What's more, roads make excellent ground cover and need little watering...
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BenWilson, in reply to
They know that at most National will lose one seat
They don't "know" that. It's simply likely. But with 10% of the vote still to count, and a large proportion of that coming from the one group of people who represent the average sentiment in NZ least - people who are not living in NZ, it does actually seem premature to call an election that is extremely tight. What if all the Maori in Australia actually chuck Pita Sharples out? What if the Greens and NZF pick up a seat each at the expense of National?
This can't stop them talking, of course, but the air of certainty wafting about is bizarre, in an election that the polls got so wrong.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
What's more, roads make excellent ground cover and need little watering...
I can still remember National Radio's attempt to perpetrate the pious fraud of rolling Barry out as Sharon Crosby's successor. While a bossy busybody with the mores of a typical retiree might have looked like a goer on paper, even an audience accustomed to Alison Holst and Chariots of Fire on high rotate wasn't prepared to wear a card-carrying bubblehead.
When an item on dog control turned into a Barry tirade about her personal distaste for dogs publicly 'rogering one another' it was time to implement the traditional NZ method of dealing with the disappointing - put 'em on the land, as it were. And thence to a safe National seat.
Of course such things have happened in the Labour Party too, but generally the rampant boneheadedness has been masked by a degree of political cunning.
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They don't "know" that. It's simply likely. But with 10% of the vote still to count, and a large proportion of that coming from the one group of people who represent the average sentiment in NZ least - people who are not living in NZ, it does actually seem premature to call an election that is extremely tight. What if all the Maori in Australia actually chuck Pita Sharples out? What if the Greens and NZF pick up a seat each at the expense of National?
If Greens and NZF both pick up a seat at National's expense then National-Act-United Future-Maori Party will have 63 seats to 58. Even if one of the Maori MPs lost their seat it'd be 62 - 58 (overhang disappears).
Five seats need to change hands for this coalition govt not to work. For that to happen about 90% of the special votes would have to not be for national. They also couldn't be for ACT of United Future.
It's not 'likely' it's electoral maths. We're just waiting to see if one seat shifts over, two if something really bizarre happens.
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Heather Gaye, in reply to
Describing MMP as the system the Germans put in place after Hitler and …
dun
dun
dun
They haven’t had a majority (stable) government since.That's just inexplicably amazing! Do you know who else had a stable government? The NAZIS!
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tussock, in reply to
But – I’d prefer a different order: good health, good education, good jobs & then good houses – the first 3, I think, are prerequisites for the last-
That's the typical home-owner's bias speaking. 8]
Plenty of labour people bring their kids up in cheap rentals between trips to school, and as we've seen recently it's hard to keep them in good health in an uninsulated concrete pen. Good houses I put first because you shouldn't need the first three to live in one, at least if you're Labour. Make the landlords earn their bloody subsidies, they'll love tax credits that secretly benefit the poor and get clawed back on the CGT anyway.
I put housing there because it naturally highlights the National party's trick of demolishing state housing for the poor to build private mansions for profit (while being positive and goal-oriented), and recalls Labour's past (in part to remind the bastards of it).
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Islander, in reply to
While I undertsand your perspective, I’d maintain that good health & education systems, with good jobs available(especially for young people) are paramount.
Life in a good house – but lacking adequate health care or a job or having a good education – isnt much of a life to my way of thinking.
Speaking as someone who has done my share of shitwork, and has lived in very substandard housing (some would call my current uninsulated home that, too.8>) ) -
tussock, in reply to
Five seats need to change hands for this coalition govt not to work.
National +2 is the government, 62 v 59, everyone else (the Māori party, Greens, Labour on trade) is just there to avoid tantrums within National costing them supply & confidence.
If they lose 2 seats it's 60 v 61, and they need help to pass everything, including the budget, and that gives everyone more say. Sure, they've got 5 parties to hunt a single vote out of, and it won't happen anyway, but still. Two seats gives the Māori party a budgetary veto.
That second seat by the way? It'd be labours if National hadn't stripped all the convicts of their votes just before the election. Just say'n.
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Islander, I think I agree, but there's no room for paramount in your propaganda. You either including housing in the order it can be provided (it's presumably quicker for most than dealing with health and education, and in part a prerequisite for health) or you leave it out.
Jobs is last because it's the most important, the one that rings in your ears, and the one that defeats National's low wage economy bullshit. They own personal aspiration, it will always belong to them: Labour needs to own the basic decency and dignity of just raising your kids here, no matter what hand life's dealt you. If that means National stays in government by caring for the poor, so be it.
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BenWilson, in reply to
It's not 'likely' it's electoral maths. We're just waiting to see if one seat shifts over, two if something really bizarre happens.
It's false electoral maths too. Because the Maori Party might switch sides if a viable coalition could be formed. Peter Dunne can always be relied upon to switch sides. That's why it's such a rush for the Nats to get these guys their pork.
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@Ben. Why do people keep voting in that drongo Dunne? He is Mr Opportunist supreme.
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