Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: And meanwhile ...

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  • Simon Grigg,

    Simon: So were members of Helen Clark's family (a grand-uncle, if memory serves), and this son of a 28th (Maori) Batallion veteran can't give a flying fuck at a donut that she doesn't do dawn services.

    Craig, sorry, just just got back to this as I'm stuck in the depths of Java, but as I said, this is a personal thing and I remain appalled. It was not a difficult thing to do and it was so clearly the right thing to do, esp as this a) his first such anniversary since becoming PM, and b) it was the 90th year. How you can think there is a partisan 'silly-bugger-ness' to this confuses me, (Helen's non-appearance at Dawn Services (but quite obvious treks to Gallipoli) are irrelevant). It's simply about doing the right thing and Key dropped the ball.

    I too come from a (three generation) military family and have grown up amongst both first and second WW veterans and I'm guessing that I'm very much not alone in this.

    So I don't think that he forgot

    No, he was just too busy.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Simon:

    a) his first such anniversary since becoming PM

    He's not yet, to be a wee bit pedantic about it. Clark is still the Prime Minister and Goff is still the Defence Minister. National sent a representative -- did any other party, just as a matter of interest?

    How you can think there is a partisan 'silly-bugger-ness' to this confuses me

    The emotive and misleading headline for a start?

    Helen's non-appearance at Dawn Services (but quite obvious treks to Gallipoli) are irrelevant)

    What is relevant was that last year, various media outlets tried to beat up on Clark over that -- and I didn't much like it either.

    And just as a matter of interest, did anyone attend Armistice Day services in their neighbourhood?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Using your Dad's experience as a pity-me argumentative flyswatter isn't. First you dragged the poor guy into it, next you duck behind him to cry foul. Cheap and tacky.

    Bullshit, Joe. If you're going to call me a liar and a partisan hypocrite, then that's not going to go unanswered. My point -- and perhaps I should set it to music and perform an interpretive dance -- is that I really hate these kind of events being used for cheap political point-scoring. (And full credit to Goff for not playing along, BTW.) Didn't much like it when it was being pulled on Clark last Anzac Day, and I don't like it now.

    But you live and learn. I thought it would have been pretty uncontentious that it was a weak story, and the beginning of the silly season where there's so little news every fart gets hyped into a thunderstorm.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And if you're looking for something to beat Key over the head with, could I respectfully suggest you're probably going to have just cause soon enough - human nature, and life, being what it is? This, in my humble opinion, is not it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Bullshit, Joe. If you're going to call me a liar and a partisan hypocrite, then that's not going to go unanswered. My point -- and perhaps I should set it to music and perform an interpretive dance -- is that I really hate these kind of events being used for cheap political point-scoring.

    I'm not even so much as implying that you're either of those things. Nor am I attempting to make any political capital from the wider situation. I'd have thought it would be clear enough that I'm not a partisan commentator, but viewed through a filter of amped-up high dudgeon I guess all interpretations are possible. And just to make it plain, I believe that Key appears to be handling things just fine.

    Having a parent who's been traumatised by their war experiences might make you a little unusual for your generation, but sadly it's a situation you share with probably around a million NZers. It's a pity that you have to add to the sense of 'cheap political point-scoring' by using your father's experience as a wooden leg to belabour those you disagree with.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    So does the taking of fingerprints and they do that if you are arrested even if you are not charged.

    My impression was that you get fingerprinted as part of the charging process. Both times I was arrested I spent a bunch of time in the cell, then taken out and processed, photographed, fingerprinted, and given my charge sheet. And then put back into the cell until they could be bothered releasing me.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Was Judith Tizard a better MP than Stuart Nash will be?

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Was Judith Tizard a better MP than Stuart Nash will be?

    Who knows? From what I've seen of Stuart Nash (and admittedly that's not a lot) he's going to be a solid but unflashy performer in the House -- on top of policy, but accessible. And doesn't confuse having a strong point of view with being an obnoxious jerk. Not "tribal" in the worse sense of the term.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    He's not yet, to be a wee bit pedantic about it. Clark is still the Prime Minister and Goff is still the Defence Minister. National sent a representative -- did any other party, just as a matter of interest?

    PM or PM elect, you know what I mean (trying to type these things on patchy on-off net connections in the last town at the end of the last road in Jawa Tengah), and whether any other party sent a rep is rather irrelevant surely. This was a major anniversary of one of the most pivotal events in NZ's brief history where a large slice of a whole generation of New Zealanders were either slaughtered or mentally and physically maimed.

    The tag applied is 'lest we forget'. Key didn't so much forget, but didn't have the time to remember as he should.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Well firstly if they have dna evidence that you have handled some of the goods then fair enough, they have detected prima facie evidence of wrongdoing. However in practice the cost of dna testing means it will never come up in such cases, the police will rely on the old standbys of informants and fingerprints.

    Peter, if you collect DNA from someone only ever arrested but never charged nor convicted for receiving under the scenario I proposed earlier, I don't see how there's a prima facie case at all?

    If I've understood your argument, you're saying that if charged and convicted and then sampled for some earlier comparable offence, Police might have reason to interview (but I'm not sure that this is a prima facie case per se).

    But in the initial scenario, I'd argue that the current definition of actus reus is compromised by National's proposals i.e. pawn shop currently has unregistered goods, Police interview individual with earlier arrest only for selling/recieving unrelated goods. To my mind at least, this kind of investigation could breach the principals of natural justice and the presumption of innocence.

    This is however, something I'd welcome more qualified views on (not that I suggest only criminal lawyers should have a view) because an arrest or charge doesn't not determine guilt therefore my logic might be flawed.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

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