Field Theory: How's that working out for you? Being clever?
445 Responses
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
them's the brakes...
possibly helped by iconic photography by the likes of Brian Brake
Hang on that's file shearing!
Isn't that illegal (according to certain MPs)?
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BenWilson, in reply to
yeah but why does it matter in the slightest, in this case? really
My reading is that people who want to widen the appeal of sport, probably so that more people will like the RWC, seek to widen the term so that more people feel included. The reverse is the case for people not into the RWC, they probably would like the definition to get narrower, more exclusive, so that RWC supporters feel a bit more isolated.
Note that in both cases, they're working backwards from the goal of pushing a point, to the semantics blocking that point. So they're just warring over communication, rather than actually trying to understand each other. It's futile, when the camps have already pre-decided their positions anyway. There may be some undecideds who could be turned one way or the other, depending on their own attachment to the word "sport". But seriously, I doubt that anyone will change their mind about whether they like rugby. They could just end up changing their mind about whether, say, chess is like it in some respects.
I also think this community is smart enough to find what I've said on this extremely obvious, and are playing the meta-game already, of making fun of semantics, which, as Gio says, is a sport.
My two cents on the debate is that it's fucking obviously a lot like chess, and also totally unlike chess. I like both, and will happily give Islander enough time to think about her move any time she wants a game, although personally I usually prefer timed matches, 10 min + 10 seconds per move. I don't expect her to like rugby, though, even if we both agree that chess can be a lot like it.
Islander. E4. Your move. No rush.
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The semantic argument has, in my experience, never had a winner. The thing is "sport" is seen as good. So people who play a "sport" are seen as somehow better. Naturally that leads to a desire to have ones own favourite leisure activity defined as a sport.
That of course is the wrong solution. Instead folks should be allowed to enjoy their leisure activity and feel good about themselves. I play WoW, I don't much care if it is described as a sport, I don't believe it is, however some people can play it with a remarkable level of skill and play it competitively, even for money. Whether it is defined as a sport is actually irrelevant to how much I enjoy it. Same is true of chess or scrabble or whatever activity makes your life happier.
WoW won't improve my fitness (unless I play it while walking on a treadmill) to do that I must do some other activity that may or may not be a "sport".
The only place where I think the definition becomes relevant is when the govt funds "sport" for some reason, national pride, promoting fitness for general health. Logically if you are promoting fitness then defining a half hour walk around the block is as valuable as promoting any "real sport". So even then any definition is kind of pointless. If you are promoting national pride then what is the difference between having pride in a good Rugby team and having pride in a great orchestra?
In the end I think any definition of sport is useless, except as a topic for competitive semantics.
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BenWilson, in reply to
There's also quite a few sports involving physical activity which stand a very good chance of decreasing your fitness. Rugby is one of them. A broken neck tends to lead to physical atrophy.
Even the quite minor injuries I've had in many sports have actually added up over time to quite bad health problems. Ball sports often mean asymmetric development which is very bad for posture. My skin is quite fucked and a lot of that is down to waterpolo, since it's always played in warm chlorinated water, and you may not wear anything that makes you slippery, so I could not moisturize before going in the water. I have had many issues with jaw dislocation that come from being punched and kicked in the face over the years. Fortunately I've never been KOed, nor even knocked silly, but professional kickboxers I've trained are clearly quite badly brain damaged by the time they reach their 30s. One instructor I trained with went to Thailand for training, and came back fit and strong, but with permanent damage, having had his eye socket smashed by a flying elbow. Anyone who does MMA for any length of time is likely to lose teeth at some point. Same goes for hockey players.
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Sacha, in reply to
The thing is "sport" is seen as good. So people who play a "sport" are seen as somehow better. Naturally that leads to a desire to have ones own favourite leisure activity defined as a sport.
Ta, that makes sense to me. There's a largely unquestioned moral overlay, as with waking early.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Ball sports involve moving a ball to the opponents end of the field,
What about those Lawn Bows eh? or Ten Pin Bowling?
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Fortunately I've never been KOed, nor even knocked silly, but professional kickboxers I've trained are clearly quite badly brain damaged by the time they reach their 30s.
Great article here on sports head injuries. The same sort of effects are being seen on soldiers who have had exposure to the concussion waves from explosions.
An (ex-rugby playing) GP once sat me down and gave me a pep talk about the exercise industry, and how it mostly did more harm than good, with most people doing whatever sport they were doing badly and wrong, the short-term health benefits that they were sold on being far outweighed by the more long-term problems they were storing up for themselves. Running leading to joint problems, asymmetric body development from incorrect weight training, etc.
Unfortunately, he did rather spoil the effect by misdiagnosing my ankle injury, which has lead to some permanent incapacity. But there you go.
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James Butler, in reply to
What about those Lawn Bows eh? or Ten Pin Bowling?
Well Bowls is clearly not a ball sport, but a bowl sport. And in ten-pin bowling you're still trying to get the ball to the opponent's end, if you consider your "opponents" to be the pins (sneaky bastards, always jumping out of the way when no-one's watching).
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Back when "Landslide Reg" Boorman won Wairarapa by a majority of one, those whose right to vote in the electorate seemed questionable were required to appear before an electoral court. The presiding judge expressed scepticism when a gent of markedly unathletic appearance claimed to visit the electorate regularly for "sport".
What sport would that be, then?
"Darts."
I think they allowed that one. -
Jackie Clark, in reply to
Yes. The waking up early thing, for me, is dichotomous. Three years ago, when I started going to the gym, the value judgements were
Oh, you must feel so much less tired". Well no because I have to get up at 5.30 every morning....... -
BenWilson, in reply to
Oh, you must feel so much less tired
Classic. I've never, ever felt less tired from weight training. Quite the opposite, I've never encountered any physical exercise that sapped the life out of me quite so much. Assuredly I got a hell of a lot stronger. But the cost was being so fucking tired, for several days after, that I could barely do anything. I expect I was overtraining, but weights do kind of encourage that.
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Jackie Clark, in reply to
Well, yes, and that's my thing, the weights training. All this I do to be strong stroppy old woman. Don't give a fuck how long I live as long as I'm as strong as an ox.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Classic. I’ve never, ever felt less tired from weight training. Quite the opposite, I’ve never encountered any physical exercise that sapped the life out of me quite so much.
How about cycling? So long as I've ridden long enough to get through the sore legs phase, I'm often full of beans after a ride -- I sometimes have to calm myself down a bit, especially if the conclusion of the ride is adjacent to drinks time ...
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James Butler, in reply to
So long as I’ve ridden long enough to get through the sore legs phase, I’m often full of beans after a ride
Aerobic vs. anaerobic exercise perhaps?
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Jackie Clark, in reply to
Weight training is both though, and I think that's probably the difference. Cycling, and other aerobic pursuits, pump up the oxygen flow. Weight training is about using your muscles to exhaustion. I'm training with weights 3x a week, but I'm getting up pretty much 5 mornings a week at a stupid hour. Longterm, I'm very much fitter, and yes I do have more energy. But I am essentially a fit, strong, menopausal, fucking tired woman.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Running leads to joint problems
And joints lead to running problems. It's kind of reciprocal.
I've always thought of mountaineering and swimming as the two life prolonging forms of exercise. So long as you neither drown nor fall in the process. Mind you, I don't really know what I base either of those convinctions on.
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Tom Beard, in reply to
This removes golf from being a sport which is an added bonus.
I refuse to participate in any sport that cannot be conducted while holding a Martini.
This removes golf from being a sport which is an added bonus.
Golf is not so much a sport as an insult to lawns. - National Lampoon
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Rich Lock, in reply to
"Golf is a good walk spoiled" - Mark Twain
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Rich Lock, in reply to
I've always thought of mountaineering and swimming as the two life prolonging forms of exercise.
With swimming, the water acts to provide a shock-absorbing cushion, so the likelihood of overdoing it and munting your joints and muscles is much reduced. It's also a total body workout, and provides both aerobic and anerobic components.
The above sounds much less humourless if you read it in your best Schwarzenburger accent.
Swimming doesn't suit everyone, though. And I'm not one for mountainclimbing.
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BenWilson, in reply to
That's why I cycle. It makes me feel good. It did take quite a few miles to get to that state, but now, even if I slack off for a few weeks, the cardio burn of the bike is good. I finally worked out that the idea of biking is to put it all on your heart, rather than your other muscles. Change down. Heart too high? Slow down. But that's another bad flow on from sports - so many trainings being pushed beyond limits, that I thought that was normal. When I first got a polar watch with the heart rate monitor in it, my immediate discovery was that I overtrained big time. The watch was shrieking at me to slow down. Of course I felt like slowing down, that pain in my chest was urging it too, but when you've pushed through that pain barrier a thousand times at the behest of a sadistic coach wielding a whistle for your 90th wind-sprint, you think it's normal. Now I don't need the watch any more. I just go off the level of exhaustion...keep it nice and even, and not that high, perhaps 70-80% of max for age, and exercise became pleasant. The watch taught me that I was not uncommonly pushing well over 100% of the max recommended for my age, and of course a likely outcome of that is that I could have just keeled over dead whilst exercising.
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BenWilson, in reply to
You look great for it too, Jackie. Keep it up.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
So long as I’ve ridden long enough to get through the sore legs phase, I’m often full of beans after a ride
You mean long enough to stimulate endorphin production ...
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
fit, strong, menopausal, fucking tired woman
be afraid ...
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BenWilson, in reply to
Mind you, I don't really know what I base either of those convinctions on.
Swimming is wonderfully low impact. It is excellent exercise, and develops good posture naturally, because it involves stretching out, and keeping your abdominals tight, and controlling your breathing. You can't fall over and break anything. You can go as hard or soft as you like, once you get a certain basic level of fitness under you. I have swum 10 kilometers in one go, and only stopped because I got bored and it was getting late. Just splatting along at about 70% of max heart rate.
I expect running becomes like this, again after a certain basic level is reached. But with running, as with cycling, there is a danger that your legs can overpower your heart, and you could run yourself to death. It seems to be one of those activities that really encourages pushing through pain, which I don't think is healthy. This is less of a danger with swim training, because your arms will give out before your heart does.
I'm not sure what you mean by mountaineering. If you mean hiking, or tramping as it's called here, then yeah, that's pretty damned healthy, until you twist your ankle 20 miles from the nearest road and cell-phone tower. Or get caught in a blizzard. But certain precautions make it very safe.
It's always struck me as a particularly spiritual kind of exercise. I think that's probably because it's about as ancient as anything humans have done. We're a walking species. Running is something we do in very short bursts. If it's any longer, then we're doing it wrong and should pop some arrows in whatever is chasing us, or let whatever we're chasing out of sight and just walk it down.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
I'm not sure what you mean by mountaineering.
I meant mountain climbing. Possibly based entirely on the fact that Ardito Desio lived to be 104. But my motto on these matters is "death before researching which form of exercise is better for you".
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