Discussion: Uncivil Rights

162 Responses

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  • Islander,

    Matthew Poole - can you point to ANY mounted unit in this century? Any?

    The internet as a *commercial* service? WTF are you talking about?
    I can find stuff that is POSTED on the internet that goes back to the the dawn of humanity- you are trailing a non-sequiteur.

    3410 - was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*? Evidence please.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    3410 - was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*? Evidence please.

    Sorry, I don't know exactly what you're asking. I can only confirm that there was about a dozen New Zealand police on horseback in Fort St. in June of '94 (or possibly '95), because I was there. I don't know the official status of the unit.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    attended by at least a dozen of them.

    was that an official *mounted ANZ Police unit*?

    Where do you think the Police would find a dozen cops, with horses trained for policing, in Auckland, if not from "an official mounted ANZ Police unit"? Seriously?
    You do understand that you can't just take a horse, put a monogrammed saddle blanket on it, and call it a police horse, right? In 2009 there were "general instructions for the protocols to ride horses on duty."

    How does this go as far as meeting your criteria for "mounted unit this century"? A year-long trial, with horses plural, looks a heck of a lot like a "unit" to me, and it was in 2002 which is definitely this century.
    So, you were saying?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    I don't know the official status of the unit.

    May as well stop there. It's not on the internet, so it didn't happen. The slim-to-vanishing chance of finding a dozen cops in Auckland, with suitably-trained horses, without their being part of an officially-sanction unit, doesn't seem to matter to Islander. If it's not part of recorded history as reported by Google, it didn't happen.

    Islander, if you don't understand the significance of when the internet became a commercial service, you'd better stop trying to treat it as your sole point of reference.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Thanks 3410: as far as is recorded (that I can access) there havent been official mounted police units here for a long time.

    There have been police officers who have used their (not official police) mounts in various situations. Those mounts have been used in official police situations (there is a police code for this as Matthew Poole pointed out upthread) and also in situations as Keir & just-thinking pointed out, that emphatically beyond normal police duties.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Matthew Poole, I think you are deliberately misunderstanding both the internet and what I am saying. Hint: the internet has commercial impetus: the knowledge contained isnt nescessarily commercially driven. And I find your "if you dont understand" tactic,
    juvenile.

    I actually do know what it takes to train a horse to behave in crowds or under duress. (Some of my rellies are serious horse people.)

    Just give us the name of the ' officially-sanction unit' (your words/sic) and I'll be happy, and retire gracefully into the undergrowth.

    Because all you are doing, to date, is saying some cops are riders, and they do it well. And bring their mounts to the party when required.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Good to have people arguing over the reality of my anecdote.

    To fill in the gaps, at least according to the regulars at the Waihopai protests, the police officer was riding his own horse, and did it every year for the protests. They knew him fairly well, obviously in happier times some of them had chatted to the guy about the horse.

    I'll try and confirm the reality or lack of NZ mounted police next time I'm in Wellington.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I'll try and confirm the reality or lack of NZ mounted police next time I'm in Wellington.

    Why does no one believe me? :)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Why does no one believe me? :)

    NZ police no longer has a motorcycle unit. They disestablished it because the BMW bikes they used were horrendously expensive to maintain, buying and maintaining a much more useful car made better financial sense as well.

    They still broke out the old bikes sometimes for special occasions, last time I knew anything about them. Most of the time they live in a garage attached to a police station. When I was 17 I took one of them off the stand and both me and it almost fell over sideways it was so heavy.

    Umm, I believe you. But my story was about a cop who (under the radar of his bosses) sometimes used his horse for his work. Another step up is officially authorised use of horses for occasional work. Another step up from that is "there's a mounted police unit".

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Why does no one believe me? :)

    I believe you, can distinctly remember a number of students bitterly complaining about it, although I can't for the life of me recall what the occasion was. A pub crawl gone out of hand or something?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    A pub crawl gone out of hand or something?

    Sort of. After the carnage of the previous two years, the police had banned the annual AU pub crawl. Of course, it went ahead anyway; mounted police divided the crowd at the corner of Fort and Jean Batten, and riot squads forced each group away. Footage of me falling under a police batton in High St. appeared on 3news that night.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    NZ police no longer has a motorcycle unit.

    Oh really? Please tell that to the cops I see riding marked motorcycles. That's as recently as the last couple of months, too.

    In fact, observe. Photo of NZ Police motorcycle. And proof that it's still registered. I'd call that pretty damn conclusive, personally.
    [edit]
    More proof that it's still registered. Open day in CHC last month. Look at the rego of the bike in the foreground.
    [/edit]

    Also, from 2008, that's rather a lot of expensive bikes with expensive markings for something that apparently doesn't exist any more.

    I would link to the photos of a police woman on horseback at the same Police College open day, but that's not proof enough for Islander so I won't bother.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    mounted police divided the crowd at the corner of Fort and Jean Batten

    Cooperative tactics with a belligerent crowd. hmm, that sounds remarkably like *gasp* a mounted police unit to me. No, can't possibly be.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Footage of me falling under a police batton in High St. appeared on 3news that night.

    & u didn't video it? Lest we forget!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    & u didn't video it? Lest we forget!

    It was one of my first big lessons in the manipulation of reality by the media; they cut into the shot on the very frame where the batton bounced out of shot, leaving just a bedraggled 3410 crumpling to the ground. The police were very enthusiastic with their battons that day, though not a single shot of it appeared on the 6pm news.

    The same goes for other events I attended during those years. There were many complaints in the early '90s about brutality against Auckland students, but no one in authority took it seriously because the news items were whitewashed.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    The horsey types tried to get a mounted unit off the ground here in Christchurch some time in the 1990s.

    It was pretty much closed due to being too costly for little reward.

    They were stabled out Marshlands/Belfast way (near my Granparents).

    From the open day photos.
    Who would've guessed it? A blond woman riding a horse in a non-uniform helmet = Dressage.
    Did they have a game of Rugby or Touch as well?

    I've seen a cop on crowd control for Uni graduations wearing the blue overalls and riding a bike with helmet.
    It all seemed very licorice allsorts, not at all uniform or even recognisable.

    However the traffic squad is used as a dumping ground while issues are being worked through - ie Connelly (now in prison).

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Oh really? Please tell that to the cops I see riding marked motorcycles. That's as recently as the last couple of months, too.

    Did you read all my post or just the first sentence? Let me repeat the bits you missed:

    They still broke out the old bikes sometimes for special occasions, last time I knew anything about them. Most of the time they live in a garage attached to a police station.

    Your copious evidence that police officers still use the bikes at open days and at the police college simply backs up precisely what I said (they still break them out for special occasions).

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Kyle, so I've imagined the motorcycle cops I've seen with people they've pulled over on the motorway? Or are you calling me a liar?

    Why would they bother to buy new BMW bikes just for open days? Those bikes retail for over $30k, and even with a government discount there's still a hefty cost to mark them up, fit them with emergency response kit, and do the other work needed to turn them into police bikes. If they're going to go to the trouble and expense, they're going to want to get their money's worth.
    You did notice that the bike I posted a photo of is a 2007 model, right? That's not some leftover from the bad old days.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Cameron Junge,

    @kyle: I'm sure my personal evidence will be less valuable than yours, but I used to work near the Ellerslie Police Station, and I can confirm that motorcycles are still used (at least up until a few months ago). The sound of a sick siren (anyone who's heard them will know what I mean) was associated with the rapid blur of a motorcycle usually shooting down Main Highway.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Kyle, this is a heck of a lot of wasted money if it's just used for demonstrations and open days, wouldn't you say? I count seven, which is conservatively over $200k in vehicle investment.
    This looks like operational use of motorcycles to me, too, as do several of the photos on this page, this photo, and some of these photos. Sorry if that's not good enough for you, but it's the best I can offer aside from my personal observation that the cops up here have motorcycles in daily use on patrol.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    though not a single shot of it appeared on the 6pm news.

    Might be less likely now that everyone's got a video camera in their phone. Did you end up in a paddywagon too?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Did you end up in a paddywagon too?

    No; getting the bash was enough standing-up-to-the-man for me. I "dispersed".

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Yes, it's a lot to take just for a pub crawl. That footage must be around somewhere deep in an archive.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Kyle, so I've imagined the motorcycle cops I've seen with people they've pulled over on the motorway? Or are you calling me a liar?

    Christ. Here's what I said.

    They still broke out the old bikes sometimes for special occasions, last time I knew anything about them.

    For the record, last time I saw the bikes was early 1993.

    But yes, to make you feel better, you are correct, I am wrong, I humbly withdraw. Clearly you're not a liar.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Yes, it's a lot to take just for a pub crawl. That footage must be around somewhere deep in an archive.

    It would have been the 1995 pub crawl which got tangled up with the Asia Development Bank protests that were on the same week. The students association tried to cancel the pub crawl or move it but the organisers wouldn't do it (I understand). So hundreds of protesters got mixed up with thousands of pub crawlers and the police got spazzy on both groups.

    I remember running an occupation of the Otago University registry at the same time and we brought a TV into the council chamber and watched Aucklanders getting knocked around while we lounged around.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

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