Discussion: Uncivil Rights
158 Responses
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Dr Ron Smith Waikato Uni, draws conclusions from Fort Hood on RNZ that any Muslim has the potential for evil. (I'm pretty sure he lost the plot rather than anything else).
Lincoln Uni has a relatively large number of Saudis & other Muslims. Many working with fertiliser, the WMD material used by Timothy McVeigh in his domestic terrorist bomb.
On the NZ continuum of clandestine operation designed to subvert the laws of the day. There is one clear group with a histroy of such action.
NZ Farmers speading the calicivirus to kill off Rabbits in the 1990s.
From SIS website:
Researcher and Educator Awareness
Researchers and tertiary institutions can assist the New Zealand Government’s counter-proliferation and counter-terrorism efforts by reporting entities’ attempts to obtain knowledge, training or research access that could be diverted to WMD programmes. Suspicious advances from nationals of countries suspected of WMD proliferation could include:enquiries about enrolling as students for, or seeking employment on, WMD-relevant research projects or study courses
[fertiliser]
applications for work or training in industry areas with potential WMD applications [about fertiliser]
requests to attend conferences and seminars on sensitive topics
[fertiliser]
requests from unknown individuals, institutions and companies for help and advice in a specific area of technology and/or technical process
[fertiliser]
requests relating to matters on which scientists, experts, research institutes and laboratory staff etc. would not normally seek advice or information and for which unconvincing reasons or evasive explanations are given
[ah shit - dumb questions are now illegal]
suspicions that the requesting party does not possess the necessary expertise or familiarity to complete a particular project or contract
[dumb arses are now illegal]
security arrangements which seem unusual, either too excessive or too lax, which demonstrate a lack of familiarity with normal practice
[situation normal]
http://www.nzsis.govt.nz/publications/NZSIS-WMD-pamphlet.pdf -
[ah shit - dumb questions are now illegal]
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[dumb arses are now illegal]No, suspicious. It's still not illegal to be a dumbarse and/or ask dumb questions. Which is very fortunate for a great many first-year university students, and indeed for a great many members of the general population.
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Just wondering if this could be a test case for some of the new legislation on evidence that have been passed recently and if so, could be interesting
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If you get to read The Press letters to the editor today.
You'll have worked out Abdullah Drury is now on the SIS watch list.
His letter links Islam (he is the self-styled Islam Historian of Christchurch) and NZ Fascist paradigms, the unstated aspect is anti-Israel etc.
Where these two paradigms meet is where Osama bin Laden lives.
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I'm always dubious of Howard Broad thanks to the Terror Raids, but I'm not opposed to these changes per se.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10614504
What does concern me is his obsfucation of events, or what seems to me to be a cynical use of Senior Constable Len Snee death at the hand of Jan Molenaar to reinforce his drive for an offensive para-military force of armed 'police'.
There are pretty simple rules of engagement to my mind. If the suspect has a knife etc, the cop should have a gun. If the suspect has a gun, the armed offenders squad is called in.
The issue in Napier was of course Jan having held weapons without proper oversight consistant with him priviously holding them legally, not in any way a fault or error by Len Snee.
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What does concern me is his obsfucation of events, or what seems to me to be a cynical use of Senior Constable Len Snee death at the hand of Jan Molenaar to reinforce his drive for an offensive para-military force of armed 'police'.
huh? If you're referring to "A critical response unit would be established to deal with call-outs", that's been on the cards since long before the Molenaar incident. The suggestion of having Armed Response Units, along the lines of Armed Response Vehicles in the UK, was being openly discussed in the media following the Navtel Singh shooting.
If you don't realise how many firearms the Police have at their disposal, and how readily they are available to frontline officers, that's not Broad's fault. The AOS and STG already likely qualify as your "offensive para-military force of armed 'police'". Broad's not out to arm every beat officer permanently, unless I really missed something between the lines in that article. He just wants to concentrate firearms training (which last I knew amounts to 50 rounds a year for non-specialist officers) on officers who have response duties. That is, general duties, dog squad (all of whom, I will point out, are entitled to carry when on duty and most of whom do), and CIB. To me, that is perfectly sensible. I don't necessarily agree, as I feel that it is useful for all police officers to be qualified to carry and use firearms, but in the absence of quality training for all it is better to give quality training to those most likely to require it and provide a specialist response capability that actively patrols (as is the case with the ARV concept) as opposed to drawing officers from other duties.
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A good example of what constitutes suggestion of "proceeds of crime" is found in this article:
Giving evidence against Beckham this week, Detective Stephen Peat described why he believed the $628,000 apartment was purchased with drug profits.
He said more than 30 deposits, ranging between $15,000 and $40,000, were transferred into the Westpac bank account of Beckham's de facto partner Taylor over eight days.
Mr Peat said the number of transactions suggested an attempt to hide the property purchase.
That is not the behaviour of ordinary people.
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The Sgt on nights routinely wears their holster without pistol around these parts.
The distinction of STG over AOS is an interesting development.
CTAG are the ones that really concern me, you get all the guns and all the spooks off on their own fantasy trail in the Uraweras.
We don't have an internal terrorist threat and we certainly don't need these new internally focused armies.
Upskill all cops to the minimum requirement of an E class gun license; have Braod shot by tazer & condements; oh and pass his fitness test; and I'll be very happy.
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Just thinking, you really don't know the history of armed policing in NZ. The STG used to be known as the Anti-Terrorist Squad, and that unit was created in the 70's in the wake of the various high-profile incidents internationally. They've always been different to the AOS, which was created in the 60's and has always been called AOS. The AOS is about cordoning and containing, the STG is about forceful resolution. There is no "interesting development", it's been this way right from the time the ATS was originally formed. The main change is that the existence and deployment of the STG is far less of a secret. The Police openly discuss the unit's existence and focus, and when they deploy it is often mentioned in the media. They're the step between the AOS and the SAS, and always have been. Broad has changed nothing, because this situation long pre-dates his time as Commissioner.
As for CTAG, it's an intelligence group not an operational one. No guns, no glory, just lots of shuffling paper.
If you meant CTTAG (note the extra T), they're just lesser-trained SAS. No spooks, just soldiers doing things that the SAS have been tasked with for decades. You realise that the SAS were stood-by to deploy to Aramoana, right? Being military, CTTAG is still subject to exactly the same Defence Act restrictions on domestic deployment that have kept the SAS in check. No change. The law makes things no easier for CTTAG than it did for the SAS, it must still be done with political approval and be presented to the House at the earliest opportunity. That's about as far from the activities of the SIS and GCHB as it's possible to get. -
Oh, and as for "Upskill all cops to the minimum requirement of an E class gun license", what were you saying about creating a paramilitary police force? You want all cops to have to meet the same standard as a civilian who would be legally allowed to own a Bushmaster (I think you're aiming low, if you'll pardon the pun), and you're complaining that Broad's trying to change the primarily unarmed nature of policing in NZ by decreeing that not all officers need firearms training? Contrary, much?
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oh and pass his fitness test
Did he fail it?
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@Matthew - Yes para-military is not particularly clear in this debate.
It's the institutional creep and the mixing of roles that needs to be avoided.If you have a chronology of 'operations' of STG it would be interesting to see. I have a feeling they would have been wound down if the Ureweras hadn't come up. See Skyhawkes.
CTTAG have been rebranded, it was well publicised, and are now Commandos. (Am I the only one with Spikes, Bad Jelly and bare bottom land in their head - probbably).
STG & the Commandos are a duplication of function and one must go. As STG are streching police capabilities and the Commandos are bridging between NZDF to the SAS, then IMO it is STG that should go.
@Kyle - he made the rule he doesn't have to do one, or shoot straight. This is all about retaining the Brass whose bodies are failing them.
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Did he fail it?
Fail it? He'd have to take it first. Officers above Inspector, I think it is, are not required to take the physical competency assessment. Interesting contrast to the Fire Service, where the National Commander has mandated that even he has to pass the NZFS equivalent.
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STG & the Commandos are a duplication of function and one must go. As STG are streching police capabilities and the Commandos are bridging between NZDF to the SAS, then IMO it is STG that should go.
They absolutely are not a duplication of functionality. STG is Police, CTTAG (they're not the Commandos yet) is military. CTTAG isn't "bridging between NZDF to the SAS", it's part of the SAS. Based at Papakura with the SAS, trained to SAS standards in counter-terror operations, and full of men (one assumes) drawn from the military. It's an NZDF operation from start to finish, and if they can't deal with it then there's nowhere else to go short of bringing in field artillery and taking things to an entirely new level.
STG are full-time, AOS are not. STG train with the SAS, AOS largely don't. Shutting down the STG would require that AOS become a full-time duty posting and that AOS officers be up-skilled in driving, shooting, close-protection and a bunch of other things. STG wouldn't have been wound down if the Ureweras raids hadn't happened. They're a tiny group, not a large one, with an easily-justified existence just within the boundaries of ordinary policing.
The law requires a clear line between the use of military force and the use of police force. It would never be acceptable for the step beyond the AOS as it exists at present to be intervention by special forces. If STG goes, AOS has to step up in a big way. That may happen, particularly with things such as ARUs and reduction in breadth for firearms training, but I note that even in London's Met they still have another level beyond their ARVs.
You've got a particularly twisted view of what armed policing in this country does and where it's come from. Precious little has changed in the last decade in terms of structure or function. You also don't seem to understand the legal boundaries that apply to the use of the military, or even the structure of the military tools available.
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The Zaoui Act (Immigration Act 2009) is by far the worst legislation of this bad bunch.
If that's the policy that is used to deal with foreigners, why doesn't the police just take DNA samples from every immigrant as well?
"intend" to arrest
I hope that is nothing less than a penalty order. Otherwise it could run a little bit out of control.
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Fail it? He'd have to take it first. Officers above Inspector, I think it is, are not required to take the physical competency assessment.
I'd wonder about that. I did the physical competency test in 1993 (I was so young then, the scale of time that you have to get under didn't even go down to my age, but I passed under what a 19 year old would require), and at the time a deputy commissioner had just finished taking it. I'm sure my dad took it above inspector, but he's been out of the NZ police for a few years now. It's to an extent voluntary I think, the police had legal problems making it a requirement of the job to pass. Part of the promotions and bonus payments?
Having done it, its relationship to being Commissioner of Police is nil.
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It's to an extent voluntary I think, the police had legal problems making it a requirement of the job to pass.
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Having done it, its relationship to being Commissioner of Police is nil.It's voluntary above Inspector or whatever the rank is, yes. I know this because a good friend works in HR at Police National HQ and we both think it's a nonsense. The Fire Service were able to mandate it for all operational staff at all levels, so I don't see why the Police would've found it a problem. It's not like the NZPFU is known for its laid-back approach to bargaining, after all.
As for the relationship to being Commissioner, he has the statutory power to take command at any incident. That means that, by law, he is an operational police officer. That's the same logic employed by Mike Hall when he decreed that all operational fire fighters must pass the NZFS PCA. The law makes no distinction between rank and operational status, and neither should the PCA if it is to be seen as a necessary operational evaluation.
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As for the relationship to being Commissioner, he has the statutory power to take command at any incident.
And the year this last happened at any incident involving physical competency? Probably not even during the springbok tour did the commissioner 'man the pumps'. Power to take command at any incident doesn't mean that he'll be jumping through windows or dragging bodies or climbing walls or any of the other things that the PCT simulates. It's command.
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For no other reason than, command requires respect, should the Police Commissioner meet the standards required of those he commands.
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Proving the spooks bias has them looking in all the wrong places.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/3173526/NZ-firm-may-face-charges-of-terrorism
When I made my submission in Christchurch to the Defense Review, one guy was very keen on getting the Illyushin 76 but I doubt he had anything to do with this.
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I don't understand what that has to do with "spooks bias", actually. A company registered in NZ leases a plane that gets caught carrying weapons from a state that's subject to UN sanctions, with a flight plan that has it landing in an area with an ongoing insurgency, and suddenly the investigation into that company is a reflection on our intelligence services? That particular leap says more about you than about them, I feel.
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A spokesman for Foreign Minister Murray McCully said of SP Trading that he was "aware of the alleged link and we are trying to find out much more as we can urgently".
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Still not following your logic. North Korea is subject to UN sanctions that, amongst other things, forbid it from exporting weapons. How is an investigation into an NZ-registered company leasing an aircraft that's been caught up in breaching sanctions "spook bias"? There's a legal obligation to look into it, and it will be the Police, not the SIS, doing the looking.
If you're referring to suggestions that there could be charges brought under the Terrorism Suppression Act, big whoop. Nations supplying weapons to entities that engage in terrorist behaviour is not at all unknown, and we're signatory to any number of conventions relating to international activities against terrorism. Again, there's a legal obligation.
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Ploughshares support events taking place in Wellington from Saturday, 6th to Friday, 12th March.
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http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/pltrial.htm
RNZ saying the Ploughshares were seen by the security guard having a prayer meeting.
When NZDF(et al) can't defend themselves against the extras from Last of the Summer Wine.
NZDF really have to take stock.
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