Access by Various artists

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Access: Right to die?

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  • Hilary Stace,

    In some ways it is a bit like planning a caesarean because you are scared of childbirth and have never been at a natural birth or known anyone who had one. Lots of people do that. But if death and dying was more part of all our lives, as it once was, then there might not be this fear of 'suffering', 'dependency', or lack of 'control' of a natural process.
    Or perhaps not.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    In some ways it is a bit like planning a caesarean because you are scared of childbirth and have never been at a natural birth or known anyone who had one.

    Slap bang on the head, Hilary.

    The culture, the traditions, surrounding birth and death have changed over the years...almost in parallel.

    Both used to be largely the province of women. The midwives, the healers, the army followers...there will be literature on this.

    Birth and dying...both raw and messy, and inevitable. And completely and utterly natural.

    And maybe that is part of this. Getting and being pregnant, giving birth, used to be a normal thing to do...it still is in some what we in the west might consider to be 'developing' nations. In the west it has turned into a medical and technical procedure...something, as you say, to be controlled....managed.

    Dramatised.

    Shared on social media.

    We have moved so very far from what used to be considered 'normal'....you only have to read the comments from those who oppose home births.

    I don't know, sometimes I think that we should insist that all young people experience disability care, elder care infant and child care etc...as part of their education...or as a form of national service (I think some countries do this).

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    Death is not usually regarded as a treatment, but I know what you mean.

    Lecretia is asking for an exemption from current laws. However, that would have an impact on other people's rights. The court has to adjudge how to balance those things - and whether it is even something they are allowed to decide on.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    True. Which of those fears seems more significant depends who you are.

    There is plenty of evidence of disabled people's lives being undervalued. That makes us vulnerable to the unintended downsides of policy and law changes, as well as the upsides everyone might benefit from.

    Nearly all humans do not have a full sense of control of our own lives at the beginning and at the end of them. That's just how it is, though harder for some to accept than others. Dying young wouldn't help.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    One thing that would help people deal with these issues of anxiety, grief and fear is access to counselling. Pity that our main counselling agency has just been euthanised.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    zing
    #ouch

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Issues of consent in our culture are not well resolved (roast busters et al). I'm very uncomfortable with the oversight of such a policy.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_klage_an

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to ,

    Good skilled counselling, with a professional you feel comfortable with, can help with the stresses and anxieties of being human.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    'can help' is not an absolute statement.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to ,

    It can help, I didn't say solve

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    http://philippatston.com/blog/

    Phillip Patson's views....

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    And doctors decide " there will be no life support, as it would only prolong his suffering."

    while the parents of this brain injured little boy ...

    ... have learned to take medical judgments about William with a grain of salt. Doctors said he would probably need to eat through a tube in his stomach, but that is not the case. He sometimes appears to react to sounds or follow faces with his eyes, despite tests confirming him as completely deaf and blind.

    Day by day, they work to improve his strength and expand his little world as much as they can.

    "He has this strong presence and we still enjoy spending our time with our boy."

    It is a battle out there...

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    With submissions due in on this issue on the 1st February 2016...

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/make-submission/0SCHE_SCF_51DBHOH_PET63268_1/petition-of-hon-maryan-street-and-8974-others

    and Andrew Geddis encouraging folk to participate....http://pundit.co.nz/content/aid-in-dying-time-to-do-something

    is it time to have another exchange of ideas on this issue?

    Or has it all been said?

    The battle lines have formed, and really...what is the fucking point because this government will be only too happy to pass a law that enables those wearied by the daily battle for survival in a disability hostile system to opt out.

    Part of me says.... make a submission

    But another part of me, the realistic, battle fatigued part of me believes it is not worth the energy input.

    This government hates non ACC disabled.

    Hates those who are battling cancer, mental illness and other significant medical issues.

    If I had the time I would link to the dozens of MSM articles, the dozens of givealittle pages...all describing how the current government has created an environment where the disabled, sick and dying are being forced into circumstances that make them just want to get the whole thing over with.

    Better off dead.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    And here is a Natrad interview with Lecretia Seales' lawyer

    Very interesting, and Kim Hill does try to raise the issue of how this legislation could affect the public perception of those with disabilities.

    AND....as if we didn't already know....NZBORA isn't worth shit.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • walrus, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Make a submission, because you can see it a lot more clearly than most. It's a headache for me because I can see the situation you describe happening to me... but I can also see a future in which I no longer have the strength to arrange my own death in any way that is acceptable to me (eg directing my power chair off the end of a wharf is not acceptable to me). But damn it, we SHOULD have a society in which it is possible to choose between dying in a dignified manner and continuing to live with all the support necessary to make that LIFE dignified. When a politician puts up a 'Life with Dignity' bill, perhaps with the death part as coda, s/he'll have my respect.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2015 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Morgan Foundation GM Geoff Simmons shows what can happen to otherwise smart people's arguments on topics like this:

    The opponents of assisted dying have offered several arguments to back up their case, but none of them are logical and evidence-based.

    All that remains is their belief in the sanctity of life, or an arrogant belief that experiencing a natural death is good for the patient and their family. These are spiritual beliefs held by a few people, and are not good reasons to rob people like Lecretia Seales of the right to choose how they die.

    When research about the impact on disabled people is funded (because we're worth it), he might have some 'evidence' to compare.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I am glad to see that the Green Party's succinct policy on Medically-Assisted Dying released today recognises the issues about disability.
    - Media release.
    - One page policy PDF.

    “Adults with a terminal illness should have the right to choose a medically assisted death,” Green Party health spokesperson Kevin Hague said.

    “The Green Party does not support extending assisted dying to people who aren't terminally ill because we can’t be confident that this won't further marginalise the lives of people with disabilities.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

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