Posts by Sara Noble
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And actually I do think that the laws for charging people with robbery, rape and murder should be "tight." My meaning of the word tight in this context is: very well constructed as to the definition of the offense. So you have to know what you mean by the word you use to describe the offense. If Terrorism is qualitatively (or even quantitatively) different from crimes such as conspiracy to murder, or the eqivalent for damaging infrastructure, then we need to be very clear about what that difference is. My reading of Buchanan's article was that the law as drafted was "tight" in these terms. And so, I believe, it should remain. Semantics aside I think we actually agree that it would be better to wind it all back into the crimes act.
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Sorry Kyle but the relationship between statement, belief, meaning and intention is far more complex than that.
And honestly, I don't know that Tuhoe are particularly focussed on changing Jo Pakeha's perceptions. I think they want to change government's perceptions (i.e. they won't be walked over). I think Hikoi has a long tradition. The walking thing is less about getting attention or sympathy than demonstrating commitment in an honourable way. So to characterise the Hikoi as part of a campaign, in the public perception sense is again rather ethnocentric. In my moderate (not minor, not extensive) experience in dealing with Maori who are actively working on Maori issues, they are usually not to focussed on Pakeha at all. They are (usually) just trying to do the best they can for their own at the time. There is even a degree of distrust of Pakeha do-gooders because they see it as our responsibility to sort our shit out and, rather than "helping" them in a paternalistic way, to work on changing our own attitudes, structures etc . Which is what I'm trying to do here.
Anyway, what is the point of this criticism? To find yet another argument for your arsenal that Tuhoe/Maori activists are dumb arses, or to work on ideas to find a constructive way forward for all concerned?
So it comes back to the elephant: do we think that, having promised Maori a significant degree of self-government, we should find ways to achieve that? If so, how can we make the transition more constructive? If not, well I think you've missed the boat, because it is happening. The question is how much conflict and pain will be generated by the waining elite on its way down.
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http://www.civilrightsdefence.org.nz/
www.gpja.org.nz/
sorry I was being lazy, and I still can't make the stuff work to do links and quotes beautifully and my husband is threatening to give my dinner to the dog, but I know its here somewhere....
Failing the above, I know they are in here somewhere.... argghh
Maybe someone else can be more specific
[http://www.civilrightsdefence.org.nz/donate]
SEND A MESSAGE OF SUPPORT TO BE FORWARDED TO PEOPLE IN PRISON
[http://www.civilrightsdefence.org.nz/node/add/support]QUOTE
PROFILES
Emily Bailey: [http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0711/S00021.htm]
Valerie Morse: [http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0711/S00020.htm]
Ira Bailey: [http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0711/S00008.htm]
Omar Hamed: [http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00390.htm]
Rongomai Bailey: [http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00389.htm] -
Bfletcher etc: I know lots of activists who talk way bigger than they act. We all let off steam by talking shit and we fantasise about what we might do if we were completely without conscience or consequences. I’ve done it myself. “Give me a couple of sisters and a sharp knife and he’d be singing in a different key!” I have a protest arrest under my belt, and the anarchists’ handbook in my shelves but for a while there I wouldn’t kill a mosquito in case it was sentient.
My sister and I also planned to kill my father – down to speculating about what chemicals might induce a heart attack with out leaving a trace. We were very angry, but we knew we didn’t really intend to do it. In motorcycle clubs its called “bench racing”. My daughter and her friend (the daughter of a VERY prominent conservative politician) had a hit list of the “popular” girls at school on their school computers. She was sooo upset at the thought that someone could take it seriously – but I’m glad I intervened before some looney saw it. Imagine what might have been made of such a thing in the US?
Between the police and the media filtering the evidence, I have no faith whatsoever that the evidence we have heard is any indication of adequate means or intention to storm the local council office let alone launch any terrorist attacks.
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I’m playing catch up here – forgive the belated chit-chat, but I have appreciated the feedback (okay, mainly the supportive kind) I have had from others, so I’d like to return the favour a bit. Despite my occasionally heated ranting, I really appreciate the opportunity to knock this stuff around. I’m only half way through all the stuff youz buggers have put up in the last 14 hours but I’m going to post this now or it will get even more ridiculous:
On Anger and Recrimination:
Firstly, I think it is a mismatch between Maori and Pakeha culture, to some extent, that Maori have culturally authorised mechanisms for strong emotions to be brought into the public sphere whereas, generally speaking, Pakeha do not. We (coz I’m one of them) tend to be expected to deal with our emotional responses internally and only deliver the processed, rationalised results in to the open – and even then only if absolutely necessary. “Least said soonest mended” and all that. Court, meetings, conferences, for instance, are supposed to be silent except for the formal speakers and formal questions. The similar venue for Maori, the Marae, welcomes emotion: joy, grief, anger, shame are all considered welcome, relevant, human responses to human situations. Because these response are nevertheless mediated by Marae kawa they are kept safe and community responses to the situation can be addressed.
Pakeha attitudes to public anger, grief etc are quite different – you are likely to be seen as bad or mad, or both.
Okay, so perhaps all this distaste about the anger expressed on the Hikoi is just a little ethnocentric, not to mention some of the interpretations of other responses such as Nanaia Mahuta’s. Correct me if I’m wrong because I wasn’t there, nor have I seen specific coverage of her crying, but there are lots and lots of reasons that she might have cried other than that she was scared of the nasty, noisy protesters.
I think it is likely that she would have had feelings of grief over the terrible things that happened at Ruatoki, grief at the idea that Maori-Government/Police relations had sustained real damage, and even possibly some grief and/or shame that she, as a member of government, has presided over this – even if from a somewhat marginalised position within government.
Okay, so as a Pakeha I’d like to think other Pakeha’s could open their eyes to the possibility that there might be other interpretations of events than those from our cultural perspective.
And, as a Pakeha, I’d like to think that our culture was growing up a bit around how to handle emotional expression. 1. That anger can be valid and expressing it in ways that do not actually do harm is healthier than bottling it up; and 2. That when an “other” is expressing anger, or any strong challenging emotion, ideally one tries hard not to escalate matters by reacting defensively. The trick is to stay in our wise or adult selves and go “hmm – this person is hurting – perhaps I can understand it, perhaps I can help them process it, perhaps we can both learn from it and go forward stronger.
Instead of whining about all those scary, ungrateful Maori, grow up. Sometimes you have to take criticism on the chin.
And to respond to the springbok tour comparison – if they’d dressed up as clowns wielding sticks of French bread, they might have ended up with concussion and broken collar bones.
binary.heart – I think you did an excellent job opening up these issues.
Hey David, any particular bits of post-structuralism you hate? I’d be very interested to know. I’ll tell you my pet theory if you tell me yours. And thanks for answering Kyle – saved me doing it – again. …yeah, like left handers on average have 10 (or so) extra IQ points – TRUE.
Shep – y’know, I really didn’t know that TI was short. Yeah, I looove the Ewoks but I still think you’re being a bit mean to Chewy – and Old Ben. Actually, I think John Minto should be Obiwan (coz he’s old and none too pretty – though perhaps THAT’S being mean to Alec Guinness). But then we have the all important role of Luke Skywalker vacant (ha ha). Maybe that is the essential problem – we need someone young and pretty to lead the revolution. Time to abduct and brainwash Newsboy. Cullen=Palpatine is pure brilliance.
CMT – thank you, vile is an understatement.
Kowhai: Sorry I wasn’t here this morning to give you a bit of support. It is all very well to criticise the front of Hikoi as impolitic, but I think the point right now is the expression of hurt and anger, and the very real sense that a reasonably amicable relationship – i.e. local people and local police – has been utterly shattered. The message is, I think, that the government has a hell of a lot of work to do to repair the damage and move forward again (if it ever will). Go for it Kowhai.
Re: Labour being retrogressive, (and fascist nanny control freaks) what – seriously – is the alternative? I hate the idea of voting for them, but I’m terrified that if we don’t the Nats are back and all that stuff about dismantling the Maori seats and removing references to the Treaty will come to fruition. I guess it’s not likely, but it is possible… and all for an extra 10 bucks a week in the hand. I really really really don’t know what to do.
Kyle: I think it might be worth clarifying a couple of points – firstly, the quote wasn’t originally mine, but that’s fine, the sentiment was, but I take your point that the absolute meaning of it was inaccurate. My point is that the SG was quite clear that Terrorism charges could not laid. He said that it was ALMOST impossible to do that in domestic circumstances. He basically said the law was a problem. But it is not up to the Solicitor General to decide what the law should say. That is a political decision that requires public debate. My position is that the law should stay (if at all) very, very tight, because the idea of Terrorism is very, very serious. In fact I think it is far to emotive to be on the statues and if we need extra laws to do this job, they should come into the “conspiracy” statutes.
Bob – see profiles at the GPJC website
“I can't actually think of a more appropriate use of the Haka than during a protest at parliament by Tuhoi.” Well said, Stephen – I’m totally with you.
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Also somewhat ironic (or maybe it was a Freudian slip) re Oliver Driver given he might well go down in history as the mutant were-sheep.
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RoO: Now I'm REALLY embarrassed... I actually did own a Jeep Wrangler - It had this terrible picture of an Indian chief on the side and was 4.0 litres! I have been thinking of ways to do environmental penance ever since. It was my midlife crisis car.
You know how "they" say that a woman in her forties has less chance of repartnering than a Jumbo jet crashing into Madison Square Gardens? Well all ya gotta do is buy a Jeep Wrangler - Men of all ilks would go all misty and, gazing deeply into my eyes, breathe, "I r-e-a-l-l-y like your....... car..."
I suspect it would work for gay boys too given its rep after Priscilla Queen of the Desert.
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I'm loosing track of all the things I'm boycotting - from Burger King right back to Ansell/Steri-tec - remember when they were going to set up a food irradiation plant in South Auckland. Oh and Fab 2. Remember the muddy lad and the pretty little girl with the bunny: "Fabulous Clean! Fabulous Soft!" respectively.
Thank goodness we can eat South African guavas again!
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Shhh... I think they've all gone to bed! Now we can plan the revolution...
Oh never mind
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Hey! That's a total insult to Chewy! (It would be far more consistent for him to be Iti anyway but thats a bit, oh, probably racist).
C - 3 - P - O Arggggghhhh!