Field Theory: I'm ever so pissed.
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How can you have those two statements in the same post?
Because:
1. who else is there to take their place?
2. why assume it's always the fault of the coaches? Couldn't it be because we don't seem in this country to produce good lineout forwards? The ABs coaches can't be blamed for the dearth of lineout talent coming through the ranks.
I don't know the answer to the lineout problem. But sacking the coaches probably isn't it.
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I agree with ScottY that one of the solutions to the lineout is to select two lineout forwards.
I wonder why Thorne hasn't been tried at #6 or #8. Given that he's a converted league player, why wasn't he converted to a position that suited his height and bulk?
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Jason O'Halloran who, along with Melodie Robinson and another who shall remain nameless, is one of the three people I have found to have a consistently good analysis and handle on the game suggests that the problem with the lineout is not coaching, is not hooker, is not jumper, it is the caller.
He says that whoever is calling the throws goes long, and if that doesn't work they get more and more desperate before using the short ball as a last resort. He said the opposite should be the case - go short, get the hooker and his line in sync, then get it together.That said, Matfield was on fucking fire on Saturday.
Through no fault of his own the gentleman was subjected to some incredibly loud swear words.
I think he may have realised the err of his ways when 11 seconds after the opening kickoff '**they've been doing it all day ref!**' was shouted in his direction...
Dear PA readers: The loudness of Hadyn's shouting cannot be conveyed appropriately via text.
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You know, you don't have to get rid of all of them. They say they have specialised roles. So why not just get rid of Hansen?
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1. who else is there to take their place?
2. why assume it's always the fault of the coaches? Couldn't it be because we don't seem in this country to produce good lineout forwards? The ABs coaches can't be blamed for the dearth of lineout talent coming through the ranks.
1. I’ll keep banging the Jake White drum until I see a logical reason why it can’t be him. BTW, look at how the England football team are going at the moment.
2. OK, so the lineout isn’t totally the coaches’ fault, although remember they also select. But it’s one of the more glaring pieces of evidence of the fact that this side is going backwards. 6 years is a long time.
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1. I’ll keep banging the Jake White drum until I see a logical reason why it can’t be him. BTW, look at how the England football team are going at the moment.
Or if we want an outsider with World Cup winning credentials, Sir Clive Woodward? Okay, just kidding.
Is Jake White even available? Who is he coaching right now?
2. OK, so the lineout isn’t totally the coaches’ fault, although remember they also select. But it’s one of the more glaring pieces of evidence of the fact that this side is going backwards. 6 years is a long time.
We could offer Victor Matfield a lot of money to retire and become a lineout consultant.
Short of that, I don't see an easy fix.
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I think he may have realised the err of his ways when 11 seconds after the opening kickoff '**they've been doing it all day ref!**' was shouted in his direction...
lol.
I think the lineout problems are long running enough given that I remember having discussions about how Anton Oliver couldn't throw the ball to a bunch of guys in black in about 2001.
Why we have a specialist scrum coach but not a specialist lineout coach (or, here's a thought, it's the same 8 guys, maybe one coach could do both) given that we've sucked at it for numerous years.... I have no idea.
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I have come to the realisation that Stephen Donald's suckiness is a bit like climate change. While most people agree with it and there is huge amounts of data to prove it, there are still some pockets of deniers who still think he's actually alright.
The bloke did manage to steer the Chiefs to the final, where they promptly fell apart. This more or less sums up Donald; flashes of brilliance, but the consistency of curdled milk. If he always played as well as he is capable (and stopped attempting that ridiculous chip-regather twice a half - it's worked half a dozen times at S14, but stop throwing away our posession!) then he'd be pretty good. Kind of like Lauaki, really. Apt.
And, as noted, Donald was still the best 10 to play S14 for a New Zealand team this year. Aaron Cruden is worth keeping an eye on next year, however.
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Sir Clive Woodward; there’s another excellent example of a coach who went on for too long.
White is currently unemployed I think. Not sure about his side-kick Jones.
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I think he may have realised the err of his ways when 11 seconds after the opening kickoff '**they've been doing it all day ref!**' was shouted in his direction...
That was one of my finer moments.
As for the coaches. Was Jake White actually any good? I know he won the World Cup, but this is South Africa's first Tri-Nations trophy since 2004.
Not sure about his side-kick Jones.
In Japan I believe
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HG; White took over the Boks when they were at a low ebb, and with team divisions etc.
He appointed his captain (best in the world) and built from there. He also brought back Percy because he realised the importance of goal-kicking. What I’m saying is he made the tough decisions (that’s why his contract was terminated) but they were the correct ones.
This current side is pretty much developed from what he built.
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Hadyn: I'm pretty sure that White took over from Rudolph Staeuli. Taking them from there to winning a World Cup is pretty impressive.
This quote from Straeuli's wiki entry is sadly familiar:
Through all the failures Straeuli kept telling the public that he was still building his team and that they should judge him on his performance in the 2003 Rugby World Cup. For the first time South Africa failed to reach the semifinals of a World Cup in which they participated.
Are they saying that if we'd switched to Deans we'd be a certanty for 2011 glory?
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He appointed his captain (best in the world) and built from there.
Cool and not to take away from what he's done, but do you think that we want a "building coach"? If White got the All Black job and then followed the same path with them that he did with the Springboks. I don't know whether he would make it o the World Cup before everyone was calling for his head.
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It's a gamble, sure.
But there are still 2 years to go, and the talent is there. And he would have personal motivation (always the biggest issue when appointing a coach from off-shore)
And most of all, it is worth a try.
If we do nothing we will not win the World Cup.
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Lineout issues were timing ones from my perspective, which has to reside in the hands of the caller & thrower - I don't know enough to pick who was out of sync. Logic would tell you just to start going to the front, where you might be more at risk of getting disrupted but at least you're going to be near your jumper.
The coaching staff could do with a shake up, our attack isn't going well and our forwards haven't been brilliant this year either. I think the attack has struggled due to the latter, so would look at finding a new coach for the big guys, preferably one with a lot of lineout experience.
I think Thorn may have had his day in the sun, he's still good but not fast enough to play blindside flanker, and we really could do with another jumper in the lineout.
I realised on Saturday that McCaw has been playing for around 7 years, and I think he's starting to slow down a bit, he was on par with Brussow in the latest game, but over the tournament was outplayed. I'd like to see him take 6 or 8, keeping Read in the team as I don't think Kaino brings enough to the breakdown (though he'd be good impact player in the last 20-30). This should give us an opportunity to blood his replacement as we'll be lost if we just go straight from him to the next guy without a transition period.
It might also be time to replace Muliaina and Rokocoko; or at the very least give their replacements exposure as well. And yeah, a backup to Carter would be nice - Cruden looks the best of the younger guys so take him on the end of year tour along with McAllister (who covers 1st & 2nd 5/8 whether he likes it or not).
I'm unhappy that we didn't win the Tri-Nations, and we're not ranked #1. But at least there's room to improve in this 4 year cycle, the All Blacks are a long way from peaking, but there's promising signs in their running game at the moment, despite the handling errors.
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If we do nothing we will not win the World Cup.
Ah yes, but, if we do something we will not win the World Cup. It's this horrible dilemma that New Zealand rugby fans put themselves into.
I recently joked to someone (though I forget who) that at the start of the 2011 World Cup (or possibly before) that New Zealanders will be frozen unable to decide what to do least some chaotic series of events leads to the All Blacks losing the Cup.
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If we do something we might win the World Cup.
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If we do something we might win the World Cup.
Start preparing the dodgy shellfish and undercooked chicken for distribution to the 'caterers'?
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If we do something we might win the World Cup.
Change the rules so only teams wearing black are allowed to win?
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If we do something we might win the World Cup.
I probably got ya on that one too :) But I see your point.
My point is this. Appointing White (or anyone else) might pay off or it might not. Keeping Henry might pay off or it might not. It depends on your psychology which one of those options you choose.
Let me ask this though. Would anyone swap Henry for de Viliers right now?
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Not de Villiers, but i'd consider if you offered me whoever is really coaching the boks ;-)
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If we do nothing we will not win the World Cup.
To be honest, I think "what is the best thing to do to win the world cup" is a bit beyond armchair critics.
Most people could see that Donald needed to be replaced at some stage during that game.
It's a bit harder to say now with precision what needs to be done now to win a major international tournament in two years. That's the sort of vision that makes good coaches great.
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Let me ask this though. Would anyone swap Henry for de Viliers right now?
No; clearly PDV is best used as a stand-up comic.
But if you asked “Would anyone swap the NZ coaching team for the South African coaching team right now?” I’d say you bet.
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No; clearly PDV is best used as a stand-up comic.
Agreed. Did you see during the game, before Richie's try, PdV was shown laughing and mucking about int eh box while the others were watching the game. The coach next to him grabbed him arm and pulled him back in line.
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He’s something else all right.
But I’m wondering if he thinks that’s the way to behave, and might accidentally be onto something. The winding up the opposition, the refs, the media, Hamilton, the IRB etc... No doubt McCaw will get it at some stage.
All good theatre.
And it takes the spotlight off his players. Jose Mourinho used to do exactly that at Chelsea (That’s football Hadyn)
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