Posts by Danyl Mclauchlan
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Read the bible and you’ll be sure
to enter Heaven. There’s no back door.
Righteous man, get on your knees.
There lies no virtue in sodomy.
Lord you are my shield
Sustain me through the fight
a shelter from the urges
and help me see the light.
You filthy sinners should just let me be
cuz Jesus my saviour’s the only man for me.Yeah, I gotta vote for hoax as well.
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Stephen
bin Laden and his cohorts received most of their funding, weapons and training for many years from:
1. the CIA
2. the US-backed Pakistani security servicesIt's pretty unlikely that bin Laden recieved funding from the US or the CIA while he was in Pakistan or Afghanistan, since his entire reason for being there was to set up an alternate, Islamic organisation for funding and arming the mujihadeen. Most of his activity during this time involved recruiting fighters from Saudi Arabia and bringing in money from his wealthy contacts in the Saudi aristocracy, or using his Fathers company to carry out civil engineering projects. He certainly didn't need money or help from the US and I doubt he would have accepted it were if offered.
That's a funny one--radical Islam an unintended consequence of the Cold War!!! You're joking, right?
No. In fact radical Islam was not unintended at all. It was a key tactic adopted by the US as a means of attacking and destabilizing the USSR. The mujahadeen were nurtured by the CIA and Pakistan's ISI becuase they were radical Islamists. Not coincidence. Not unintended.
The Afghans were helped out by the West because they were fighting the Soviets, pure and simple. Being radical muslims had nothing to do with it, and if they'd been Seventh Day Adventists or Theravada Buddhists, Carter and Reagan still would have given them Stinger missiles.
The rise of radical Islam has a number of causes - I argue that it's largely a result of the inability of muslim states to develop into successful modern nations - almost all of them are economically stagnant corrupt dictatorships. Whatever the reason Islamic fundamentalism certainly wasn't a creation of the CIA.
Anyone who believes that this "war on terror" bullshit has got anything to do with religion or defending liberal values is either stupid or wilfully ignorant.
I'd be curious to know why you think Al Qaeda attacked the United States on 9/11? (Please don't tell me you think Bush or the Jews did it.)
I think it was part of a long term goal to establish true Islamic states in the Middle East, and if this ain't a religious reason then what is?
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I'm not resiling from my criticism of radical Islam, but I figure not all of the 1,300,000,000 Muslims on our planet can be entirely bad.
I've lived in a couple muslim countries now, and there are, indeed, some very nice people who practise Islam. But I'm sure there are some great guys in the Flat Earth Society as well, and that doesn't validate their belief system.
Manakura tries to make the claim that Islam is admirable for it's treatment of women, in terms of property and legal rights, an argument that seems delusional when we read stories about Saudi Arabia, where last year firemen murdered several dozen schoolgirls by locking them in a burning building so they couldn't escape into public unveiled, or Iran, which regularly executes rape victims for the crime of adultery.
An argument can be made that these people don't follow 'the true faith of Islam'. But the Koran is pretty damn explicit in spelling out the inferior status of women: it requires the testimony of two women to offset that of one man (2:282) and every girl deserves exactly one-half her brother’s share of inheritance (4:11). It recommends that wives be regularly whipped (4:34).
The last reference is worth quoting in full:
Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great.
The reality is that - as with Christianity - misogyny is built into the core of the faith.
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I know heaps of Kiwis that adopt an Aussie accent after moving to Aussie because it makes life a lot easier.
Waiter: Gidday guys, my names Tony and I'll be your waiter for this evening.
Kiwi: Hi Tony - can we get a bottle of mineral water to start . . .
Waiter: Geez - you've got a funny accent! Where are you from?
Kiwi: I've been living in London for four years, but I'm originally from New Zealand.
Waiter: New Zealand! You must like shagging sheep! Ha ha ha ha, just kidding, just a little joke.
Kiwi: Ha ha. Can we get some water and a couple of menus . . .
Waiter: Oh yeah, we know all about you kiwis and your sheep you dirty buggers. Hey - say 'six'!
Irish Girlfriend (whispered): What's he talking about?
Kiwi: (whispered) He thinks he's being funny . . .
Waiter: Got yer velcro gloves have you kiwi? You know - to hold onto the sheep while you're shagging it? Ha ha ha. There's no mutton on the menu here you know - might not be the right cafe for you. We got lots of farms over here though. If you get too homesick you can pop up there and say hi to baaarbara. Ha ha ha ha, just a little joke.
Kiwi: (Slowly) Can you get us some MENUS?
Waiter: You want some Ewes? You dirty bugger, I bet you do. Bet you'll give them a right shag, ha ha ha ha. Want to say hi to Baaarbara do you, ha ha ha ha. (To girlfriend) Does he make you dress up as a sheep? We know what these kiwis are like, aye, ha ha h a ha . . . They like to have sex with sheep, ha ha ha ha. They fuck sheep, ha ha. Just kidding mate, just kidding, just having a little joke . . . Ya sheep fucker!
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Redbaiter is pretty funny, but a bit repetitive. I also think Whaleoil is pretty funny - claiming that someones problems are caused by repressed homosexuality is a trivial, infantile comment to make about a person you don't like, but in Whaleoils case it's almost certainly true.
But for pure comedic gold that keeps on giving you want Adolf over at Sir Humphreys.
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Didn't read Anjum's post then? I use violence more widely than just dropping bombs and shooting first and asking questions later. It all counts towards pushing people to the edge and fostering distrust etc etc.
Yeah, but I really don't think that getting your mosque spraypainted by skinheads is really an acceptable excuse for blowing yourself up on a bus full of civilians (or whatever). The responsible position is to deplore racism, imperialism and so on, AND Islamic terrorism. Dreaming up excuses for terrorism doesn't make one liberal or reasonable, it just makes you a useful idiot for an unusually loathsome ideology.
if I am to convincingly defend what is right with Islam to others I need the latitude to condemn what I believe to be wrong with it
Here's my question to Weston - what do you think is 'right' with Islam?
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Danyl, you're conflating 'muslim' - an organised religion - with 'middle east' - a geographic area. I wasnae referring to the middle east, but rather the muslim world (yes, a stupendously vague term, but this is a net forum not Time) which encompasses Indonesia, other parts of S E Asia, large swathes of London, and as Anjum's post illustrates our very own City of the Future, and more.
You did write:
but considering the violence that nearly all modern industrialised western nations have rained down on the muslim world . . .
And I haven't noticed any western industrialised country 'raining violence' down on Indonesia, multi-cultural New Zealand or large swathes of London in the recent past. It's hard to see what you were talking about, if not the Middle East.
If you can find in my post anything approximating 'Its all The West's fault' then you are a magician.
What you said was:
Furthermore, the assemtry of the violence between the msulim nations/organisations and western nations is so extreme, i would suggest the onus on reducing conflict lies with the nations of the west.
Which is pretty much the same thing. Personally I think the big problem with most muslim countries is that they are almost all ruled by corrupt, brutal dictators (or, like Indonesia and Iraq, have been until the very recent past).
The suggestion that the popularity of, say, the Muslim Brotherhood is due to historical Anglo-French colonialism (or whatever) is risible - Egyptians support the Brotherhood because their government is a military dictatorship and joining a radical Islamic organisation is one of the only avenues for changing it.
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Danyl, you're conflating 'muslim' - an organised religion - with 'middle east' - a geographic area. I wasnae referring to the middle east, but rather the muslim world (yes, a stupendously vague term, but this is a net forum not Time) which encompasses Indonesia, other parts of S E Asia, large swathes of London, and as Anjum's post illustrates our very own City of the Future, and more.
You did write:
<i>but considering the violence that nearly all modern industrialised western nations have rained down on the muslim world . . .</i>
And I haven't noticed any western industrialised country 'raining violence' down on Indonesia, multi-cultural New Zealand or large swathes of London in the recent past. It's hard to see what you were talking about, if not the Middle East.
You did write:
Furthermore, the assemtry of the violence between the msulim nations/organisations and western nations is so extreme, i would suggest the onus on reducing conflict lies with the nations of the west.
Which is pretty much the same thing. Personally I think the big problem with most muslim countries is that they are almost all ruled by corrupt, brutal dictators (or, like Indonesia and Iraq, have been until the very recent past).
The suggestion that the popularity of, say, the Muslim Brotherhood is due to historical Anglo-French colonialism (or whatever) is risible - Egyptians support the Brotherhood because their government is a military dictatorship and joining a radical Islamic organisation is one of the only avenues for changing it.
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Agreed about Radical Islam, and well radical just about everything especially Fundy Christianity, but what is so great about the modern world?
Dentistry
Industrialisation, global capital, nationalism, colonisation and so on are all inherent to modernism and they aint nothing great about any of those things.
It doesn't get much more ironic that slagging off the horrors of modernity over the internet.
but considering the violence that nearly all modern industrialised western nations have rained down on the muslim world are we surprised that Radical Islam is such a powerful force?
Nearly all modern industrialised nations have rained violence down on the muslim world? I can name like, four - France, Israel, the US and the UK. And since the last couple decades of Middle Eastern History have mostly consisted of muslims enthusiastically bombing, slaughtering and torturing each other I think it's a little unfair to blame all the problems of the Middle East on 'The West'.
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bin Laden wants a fundamentalist pan-Islamic state - he's said over and over that "Western" liberals values are the enemy
I'd be surprised to hear bin Laden referred to 'western liberal values' - it's a distinction I doubt he'd bother to make. Usually when Al Qaeda complain about values they're talking about 'pagan', or 'pre-Islamic' values, a broad church including Communism, Capitalism, Atheism, Judaism, Socialism, Christianity, Shi'a Islam and any kind of secular form of government including the Saudi Royal Family.
bin Laden sees all of these beliefs as different facets of one huge anti-muslim conspiracy - I'm sure he's aware that there's a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans, but I think it's about as significant to him as the distinctions between, say, the Hanbali and Salafi schools of Sunni Islam are to George W.