Posts by simon g
Last ←Newer Page 1 2 3 4 5 Older→ First
-
Speaker: The Government you Deserve, in reply to Alfie,
Alfie, you're giving cherry-picking a bad name. I hope you're reading all the other Guardian articles as well. I'd back Neil Kinnock's Labour credentials over somebody who joined five minutes ago.
To repeat (3rd time): I/we don't "fail to see the rising groundswell of support", at all. Please stop insulting my intelligence, it's tiresome. I just happen to see a clear distinction between the activist left and the UK voters. Thousands versus millions. Pro-Corbyn demo versus anti-Brexit march. 1983 versus 1997 (or even 1992). Politics is counting, not just believing.
You ignored the question before so I'll try again: what is Corbyn going to do in Scotland? No seats in Scotland = no Labour government in the UK, that is as basic as it gets.
A mantra doesn't beat maths.
-
Not all politicians lie, and they certainly don't all lie to the same degree. Claiming that they are all equally cynical is the way to a) ensure the liars win, and b) deter decent people from standing.
"They're all as bad as each other" is a lazy line that only helps the worst.
-
Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit, in reply to Alfie,
Alfie, I was looking for an irony because I was nonplussed by your reply. Coalition-building doesn't mean what you seem to think it means, by citing Blair's election victories (did you really think they had slipped my mind?).
Labour need votes, ergo a broad coalition of interests. It was ever thus, from Attlee to now. Without the Remain voters, Corbyn is stuffed. Thousands of members don't beat millions of voters, even if they all have placards.
-
Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit, in reply to Alfie,
It can be hard to pick up irony online, so I'll have to guess that's what you are trying here. Otherwise, I can only suggest re-reading and understanding what "building a coalition" obviously means.
Meanwhile, are we still going with the assumption that "protest in London = votes in the UK"? Because the Remain supporters have been out there too, and in greater numbers than the Corbyn fan club.
To repeat the questions (and does anyone want to answer it?): Will Corbyn's Labour support Brexit or not? Where will he stand if there is an early election, BEFORE Britain has left the EU? And especially, what is he planning to tell voters in Scotland?
That is a vastly more important question than what a bunch of second-rate plotters are up to. Saying "I heart Jeremy" doesn't cut it.
-
Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit, in reply to Alfie,
Some are "grassroots Labour supporters". Some aren't. There's plenty of evidence on that there internet to demonstrate that these aren't all salt-of-the-earth Labour folks, wanting to build a coalition to win (and Labour have never won without that coalition, and dare I say, never will). The parallels with 1983 have been drawn before, and they are valid. 18 years in opposition turned enemies of Kinnock into friends of Blair. Some victory.
Your ideal scenario will never happen, I'm afraid. When Corbyn's biggest ally (John McDonnell) talks about immigration the way he did yesterday, it is only a matter of time before he becomes the next "traitor", in the eyes of those same protestors.
If there is an early election, prior to Brexit, where will Corbyn/McDonnell stand? For or against the EU? Fighting for the UK or letting it dissolve? I don't know, but the British voters will want to.
-
Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit, in reply to Rob Stowell,
I think UKIP will do fine if there's a whiff of "betrayal". And in less than a week, it sounds like there will be. Immigration Set to Continue Shock!
A real irony here - both the illiberal right and the uncompromising left are feeding their own Dolchstosslegende.
-
Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit, in reply to Alfie,
Not that simple, Alfie. Membership of what?
It's like people commenting on the Standard or Daily Blog telling Labour what to do. The party probably shouldn't take much advice from Mana.
Take a good look at those protest placards. In short: Socialist Worker isn't Labour, and London Labour isn't UK Labour. Different worlds.
-
So often we read history books and wonder how a particular cluster***k happened. In Britain now they're living through the perfect example of why and how it does.
A history classroom, decades hence:
"So that's how the UK ceased to exist. Scotland left the union after the UK left the EU. It's often argued that Prime Minister [name] could have stopped this happening. After all, s/he was elected to the Tory leadership, and was running the country, with a Parliamentary majority. In retrospect, that seems obvious. But at the time ... "
"But Professor, wasn't there a candidate who wanted to keep the country united?"
'Well, all of them did. But not as much as they wanted to be Prime Minister. The future could take care of itself, they thought. Ambition beats vision, you see."
What a tragedy, what a farce.
-
Epitaph for Boris Johnson, as seen on Twitter:
"What a catalyst you turned out to be. Loaded the guns, then you run off home for your tea."
(Eton Rifles, of course ... )
-
In 1983 UK Labour campaigned on a manifesto that was considerably to the left of current Corbyn. That was the famous "longest suicide note", which incidentally included a commitment to withdraw from Europe (as it then was, much smaller than the current version).
In 1997 the same party won power, under Blair, with a platform about as different as it was possible to be - though it was more different still in years to come.
But here's the thing. Many of those Labour MPs or candidates were the same people. They were unelectably left, and then they were treacherously right. What happened? Basically two things - Thatcher had shifted the ground, and those Labour MPs had been sitting on the opposition benches for another 14 years. Except the ones that had died - because it was a long, long time.
Chris Mullin's (enjoyable) diaries illustrate this perfectly. He was the epitome of a Bennite "wrecker", the tabloid enfant terrible, the lefty that Labour's leadership loathed. Then he was a Minister in Blair's government. Still left, still a very decent and principled guy actually, but ... in power.
I've no idea what will happen in the short term, whether Corbyn will stay, whether a successor will be any good. But let's imagine a time machine, so we can go back and tell 1983's Neil Kinnock and Tony Benn that their sons will be voting 'no confidence' in their leader. "Because he's too right wing?" "Er, no."
As Alex Ferguson almost said: "Politics, eh? Bloody hell."