Posts by Tom Semmens
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We've just got to create an environment here where people want to stay here and live here and be part of New Zealand - and yet still be part of the world.
It is the total smug arrogance and hypocricy of the man that gets me.
If he lived in Chile, enjoyed taking the salute at military marchpasts and liked showing off his collection of Pinochet memorabilia before launching into a denouncement of creeping socialism in New Zealand then at least his comments might have the virtue of honesty.
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@Tim - ah, now I understand. BTW "Polar bears" isn't meant to be particularly rude.
the gays we know about in rugby would have a horrible time, therefore there are and have been very few or no gays of either kind in rugby.
Well, I can't speak for Haydn, but for me you are only seeing half my argument. To me, the ability of the identity politics liberals of public address to completely miss the most common sense observations of human society as they obsess over how many angels on the head of a pin may be gay is a complete waste of time, I mean why would you bother?
Good on Gareth Thomas for achieving what he has, and good on his team mates for supporting him. But generally, rugby is a self-conciously macho sport full of people with un-reformed views. Gay's generally avoid the sport for reasons of mutual dislike. Yes, Virginia, some parts of our society are like that. You and I might not like that, but it's a free country, so we have to learn to deal with that.
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Tim:
"Polar bears" is a bit of an online joke, the answer you post to a rant to indicate no one has a clue about what you are on about or what point you are trying to make.
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And if XYZ hadn't come out as gay? Maybe because they don't want the bullshit and the comments and the heavier hits? What if XYZ goes out with a girl he met at a party, gets married? You know, like Gareth Thomas.
How long does it take everyone to know then?
Ummmmm.... Polar bears?
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Yes, but, how would the other team know?
Small towns - and big ones - have small rugby communities. it would take all of two weekends for everyone to know XYZ had come out as gay.
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So your argument boils down to gays are effeminate?
Did I say that? No. What I said was you have to buy into a self consciously male culture to succeed.
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Actually I suppose it boils down to a pretty simple equation really. Rugby in particular is a sport which self consciously propagates masculine values. If you don't buy into those values, then you'll go do something else.
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Hmmm. My review of the people I know who actually play rugby or league - my sample isn't huge but is made up of working class PI's & provincial Pakeha - suggest the "being comfortable" in the Public Address Liberal sense with a gay player is a little way off yet.
Views were mixed and rather contradictory, but it seemed that being gay would be OK if you were "our" gay guy and you were gay only in the abstract. Quentin Crisp need not apply. On the other hand, it seems that a significant number of players would regard an openly gay opponent as fair game for the extra hard hit, the slightly more aggressive fend, the extra shove in the back. All in all then, a good old fashioned sense of Kiwi fair go and and empiricism would apply, but only up to a point.
It seems to me that at the elite level a gay player is protected by multiple eyes. Further, the players who make it to elite level are I think atypical of the cultural type that makes up the vast ranks of ordinary players so it is pointless to try and extrapolate from the prevalent attitudes at elite level to try and work out how many players are gay.
My anecdotal research indicates that at lower levels of the game it would cause a helluva lot less fuss to stay in the closet, unless you don't mind being singled out for a bit extra attention. All in all, I would suggest that rugby culture isn't generally gay friendly and so I agree with Haydn - rugby players are a self selecting and pretty much heterosexual group.
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It can't be true.
If it was, the Herald would have banner headlines of "DEMOCRACY UNDER ATTACK".
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Hah, if you think talkback land is grumbling over this flag issue, just wait until Bill English turns the screws with a black budget in 2010 whilst at the same time doling out vast sums of taxpayer money to unaccountable Maori welfare organisations run, funnily enough, by the same Iwi elites who have just made a nice fat taxpayer-funded profit with their ETS rort.
National and the Iwi Elite Party, a match made in fat cat heaven.