Posts by Russell Brown
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Matthew Poole,
Precisely. The cops will be gunning for a hefty chunk of 20 years rather than an equivalent chunk of 10 years.
In either case, they seem to me to have amply met the necessary standard to ask for a warrant:
When can a search warrant be issued?
A search warrant may be issued by a court if there are reasonable grounds for believing that in any building, vehicle or other place there is:
anything on which or in respect of which any offence punishable by imprisonment has been or is suspected of having been committed
anything that there is reasonable ground to believe will be evidence that an imprisonable offence has been committed, or
anything that there is reasonable ground to believe is intended to be used to commit an imprisonable offence
The search warrant should describe the place being searched, the offence involved and the items being searched for.
Generally search warrants apply only to premises and do not give the Police the right to search the people there.
Search warrants & access to computers
Police executing a search warrant on your property may require you to give them information or assistance to allow them to access data that’s held on your computer or that’s accessible from it. You can be required to do this only if:
you are the owner or hirer of the computer, or someone who has possession or control of it, or an employee of one of those people, oryou have relevant knowledge of the computer or computer network, or of the computer’s data-protection measures
If you refuse to comply with the Police, you commit an offence and can be fined up to $2,000 or imprisoned for up to three months.
I think they had grounds to “suspect” an imprisonable offence had been committed, but feel free to explain how they didn’t.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Matthew Poole,
You’re supposing that they haven’t tried, or at least had the discussion with people who really do know what’s required. We just don’t know.
I'm struggling to believe that given the heat on them at the moment, the police would have omitted to say that they tried for a warrant and a judge refused. Do you believe that?
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to BenWilson,
I don’t know if that’s surely true. They want these guys for rape. Photos won’t give evidence of consent, which is the crucial point.
In the case of girls under 16, it’s not.
And remember, these guys took videos of themselves and are likely to have video of the offences.
Also, Crown prosector Simon Moore just told Kathryn Ryan that such “statements against interest” do carry weight. Maybe not enough for a conviction on their own, but I simply don’t believe a judge would refuse a warrant in such circumstances
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Matthew Poole,
ETA: I know you talked about a warrant, not a conviction, but Graeme has indicated that bragging online is not likely to be enough to put anything before a judge.
Graeme also said they didn't need a complaint to investigate. And I really do not believe a judge would be presented with actual admissions of the rape of underage girls and refuse a warrant. I look forward to your excuse for the police not even testing the possibility.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Matthew Poole,
All due respect, Russell, I’ll take his word over the armchair legal experts who have weighed in thus far. Bragging on Facebook doesn’t amount to evidence if there are no specifics.
You're being disingenuous, Matthew. We're not saying "Can they lay charges on this right now?", we're saying "Can they investigate further? And is this enough for a warrant to seize phones and computers?" To which the answer is clearly yes.
Because the problem with just "alerting" the schools (at least one of which seems to have done jack shit) and leaving up the page is that more girls got raped. That's really not a very good result.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Craig Young,
And my partner and I have a daughter. I find this situation reprehensible. Granted, there may have needed to be a brief period before the police gathered sufficient information to prosecute these evil misogynist little shits, but they should have acted far sooner than now.
This has been doing my head in. Yes, without formal statements from victims it's difficult to pursue rape charges. But the police have long had more than enough for a warrant -- why didn't they seize phones and computers? As vile as the idea is, it's highly likely these guys documented their offences on video.
The idea that they had to have formal statements in order to investigate is simply wrong. Indeed, it seems that it's going to be a easier for victims to speak if their statement is but one piece of a great weight of evidence.
I'd also like to know what kind of support and counselling these girls have had. I know of one victim who is now afraid to leave the house -- is she just being left to that by her school and police? I really hope not.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Tom Semmens,
I do think there's a danger of a "Mazengarb event", yes, in the sense of a moral panic about a whole generation (and the media it uses). It's not a big shift to "OMG teenagers are having sex!", which of course isn't the point
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Stephen Judd,
When I read this Herald story, it seems to me that one interpretation is that there was a continuing police investigation, and that TV3 just leaped in, perhaps ruining it. Is that completely misreading it?
That's what the police said late this afternoon. But not what they said in a lengthy statement this morning. I'm dubious.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Matthew Poole,
Probably something Graeme can answer with more authority, but a search warrant does require some reasonable level of suspicion that the search will turn up evidence to support prosecution. Along the lines of my comment about it being hard to tell age from video, that’s a hurdle to convincing a judge that evidence will be forthcoming if there is a search.
They have an online admission of gang-banging a 14 year-old. That is, gang rape. I think that would get them a warrant so they could seize phones and computers which might contain further evidence.
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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies, in reply to Gareth Swain,
The question that keeps arising in my mind as I follow this story (and others like it) is, how did these guys think this was going to end? Did they never once imagine their notoriety would spill beyond their peers and that there would be repercussions?
Apparently not. But it's not the first time I've seen that kind of insensibility to the fact that they're speaking in a public space.