Posts by Russell Brown
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We're having a discussion about discussion. A meta-discussion. With bonus copyright. Sayin'.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Danielle,
Again, it’s another totally valid concept which can occasionally be undermined by meanspirited feminist asshats.
Gotcha.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Sacha,
Plus trolls are often unintentionally funny and/or worth of mocking
David Cauchi recently expressed his disgust at Kracklite's slightly cruel tormenting of the P-Troll on his last visit here.
What David didn't realise was that P was a genuinely destructive troll, and sometimes a hurtful one, who had returned under different accounts after being repeatedly banned. I basically looked at that and thought, well, nothing I do works, so ...
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to James Butler,
It was quite fun watching a certain someone taking that technique to the Dim-Post the other day, and using it to tie The Other James in logical knots. It’s great as long as one has tried engagement first, something that this forum is IMHO pretty good at mostly.
That was some awesome threadplay, for sure.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Don Christie,
Which proposal is the most reasonable in that context? I am certainly willing to listen to arguments in favour of a longer term than 24 hours for digital content. Not to do so would be stupid, but longer than the 7 years deemed reasonable for publishers 300 years ago? Come on.
Sorta. But publishing income gradually develops into a modest living for composers over time. Someone like Shayne Carter now basically gets enough publishing income via his songs to cover the rent, and there's enormous social value in that. It's pretty much the ostensible basis for copyright itself.
I think what we do with copyright needs to be finer-grained than what you suggest. What is productive, useful and reasonable, and what isn't? I suspect we'd agree on a much more liberal regime for non-commercial uses. But then you get into the argument of what is actually "non commercial" ...
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to BenWilson,
Personally, I have to say that I enjoyed a pointlessly argumentative period early on, but feel that I’ve moved on. I wonder how many others have done the same, and is there a gender difference on that?
Actually, there's a long-established pattern of people coming in a bit bristly then eventually getting the rhythm of the place and becoming highly valued contributors. Like you. And recordari.
Lilith, as I recall, came in to comment on Emma's chronic fatigue syndrome, took a short while to get her bearings, and has been an excellent new voice.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Heather Gaye,
There are two things I’ve noticed:
1 The community’s gotten really big. Popular threads get a *lot* of comments in a very short time, so the conversation moves really fast. I imagine that’s common to large online communities.But, still, even by Nielsen's lowball number of 17,000 (context: in Earthquake February, Google Analytics had us at about 80,000 unique users, which I don't believe), lurkers still massively outnumber commenters.
2 Often trolls or flame wars are dealt with by derailing into whimsy, which a smaller circle will then run with. I quite like that, & it’s not really something I’ve seen on other forums. Frustrating if you’ve got a point to make, but generally a fun way to draw a line under a contentious thread.
Perceptive, you are. It's a very desirable characteristic of PAS culture. I think that's because so many people here are reasonably experienced internet arguers -- right back to Usenet and listservs, so they're sensitive to things going pear-shaped and co-operate to change the tone. The Serious Discussion will come back after a time.
Hey, can anybody help me with one of the standard shut-downs in the feminist blogosphere: the "tone argument"?
Anyone's objection to someone being an asshat is instantly disabled when it's labelled a "tone argument". It seems to me that tone is incredibly important to a sensible discussion, and that remonstrating with someone over their obviously unhelpful tone is a productive form of moderation.
I get that it's A Thing. But where did "tone argument" come from?
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Heather Gaye,
both genders?
Cis privilege.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Don Christie,
Maybe now would not be a good time to throw in my “24 hours” digital copyright term proposal. Round about minute 5, but the preceding 5 minutes Q&A are good.
Oh Don, don’t make me …
But okay: the problem with throwing up radical ideas for pushing back copyright –even as thought experiments – is this:
On a practical level, especially if you’re telling people that it’s their “business model” that’s the problem, copyright abolitionist (or near) ideas rapidly become extremely unreasonable.
Let’s take music: okay, maybe retail sales aren’t the thing any more. But if you basically get rid of copyright, you’re also killing off most other options.
Publishing, including performance rights income (ie: Apra) and synchronisation (getting money for the use of your song in an ad or a TV programme or movie) is the thing that’s been filling the gap for composers as retail sales wither. SJD, to take one example, made his return on Songs from a Dictaphone not through sales, but through three big commercial sync deals. The L.E.D.s, at a lesser scale, got three songs placed on Outrageous Fortune. It can work, but it’s entirely contingent on copyright.
If you extinguish that avenue, then, yes, bedroom mashers will be able to use anything they want without asking first. But so will big corporations. It would be an awful situation.
Basically, you’re telling people it’s their fault for not adopting a “business model” that doesn’t actually exist.
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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,
I suspect this might not be unique to Public Address, but I notice it here a lot.
Yes. OTOH, the highly discursive nature of discussions is one of PAS's delights.