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Speaker: Quantum Competition

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  • Paul Williams,

    all of this is just deeply tedious for those of us not invested in the sport, so there's always going to be a certain level of glee from us when the whole thing collapses so spectacularly.

    I gettit too, but this is becoming a referendum about rugby rather than, what I'd hoped for at least, might be a therapy session ...

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    rather than, what I'd hoped for at least, might be a therapy session ...

    Well, I guess we can all be take solace that we're not this guy.

    Unless one off us is that guy, in which case, uhh... sorry dude.

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    the way the media loses interest in covering any news stories for a good couple of weeks and devotes their energies to an in depth analysis of what color clothes a sports team is going to wear -

    Well you would have enjoyed the TV ONE news tonight... or at least will at 8:30 pm after Bathurst has finished.

    Arguably the biggest sporting story in the entire year (hell, without a doubt it is) and TV ONE aren't even running a news bulletin!

    I get annoyed by the marketing and over the top commercialism that goes on often at the expense of the actual product itself. ie. ABs not playing in the Super 14 and the ANZC, and b and c teams turning out for the ABs all the while they tell us how awesome the team is and what they eat for breakfast or drive to training in, what NZ music they like, what patch of dirt they played on as a young fulla, how we can 'roar' them on to victory, what their DNA makeup is etc etc every single day year after year.

    I suppose they have to make a buck somehow but by god the game has been so sold out to the dollar that its losing its soul. We won't even let Tonga, Fiji and Samoa play in the Super 14 and if Fiji beat the Springboks then they will have done better at the RWC than the entire fullstrength NZ team.

    Ah fiddlesticks ;)

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    JP, perhaps they are the person that just won 5 million in powerball ;)

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Just to get a three-peat of posts after an exhaustive research session of 15 minutes I can confirm what I suspected and stir a bit more.

    The 2 penalties the ABs were awarded in the entire match was the lowest in the enitre tournament to date of 42 matches.

    We lost the count 7-2.

    3 penalties were awarded to a team twice
    4 = three times
    5 = 11 times
    6 = 13 times
    7 = 11 times
    8 = 15 times
    9 = 15 times
    10+ on 12 occasions

    So well done France. A truly remarkable display of discipline in a match where you had to defend for 70% of it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    ..all of this is just deeply tedious for those of us not invested in the sport, so there's always going to be a certain level of glee from us when the whole thing collapses so spectacularly.

    Glee? Jeez, Danyl, steady on.

    I dropped the kids off at St Lukes for the movies this afternoon, and the atmosphere was actually quite funny. Most people (men especially) were just sort of walking around in a daze.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    JP, perhaps they are the person that just won 5 million in powerball ;)

    Nah, it's more likely to be another NZ Finance company.

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    Danyl wrote:

    tI think I can see where Craig is coming from (for once) - for those of us not interested in the game the world cup was mostly just an irritating, alienating experience: the saturation level marketing dressed up as nationalism, the irritating conversations with random [snip]
    so there's always going to be a certain level of glee from us when the whole thing collapses so spectacularly.

    Yes, but don't forget there's a lot of us - more than you might think, and quite a lot posting here - who still love the game while having grave reservations (to put it mildly) about the elements you list.

    At the same time, though, "glee" at other people's disappointment is not an admirable thing.

    One of the things I've admired about the ABs over the past few hours is how they haven't complained about the ref. Richie McCaw looked emotionally and physically exhausted at the press conference. But they've taken the loss maturely. Perhaps its a good example to the rest of the country.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Most people (men especially) were just sort of walking around in a daze.

    That's how I walk around usually.

    Or else it could have been the anti depressants. During the replay of the game on TV3 this afternoon they ran the JK ad for coming forward if you are suffering from depression. I bet the phones have been ringing off the hook.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Yes, but don't forget there's a lot of us - more than you might think, and quite a lot posting here - who still love the game while having grave reservations (to put it mildly) about the elements you list.

    Wordy McWord. You can be a fan and be critical at the same time.

    At the same time, though, "glee" at other people's disappointment is not an admirable thing.

    Heh. I wrote several posts to this effect and deleted them all, because I thought I might have been too piqued. But yeah: there are a lot of things I find 'tedious', but I usually ignore the relevant interweb fora for them. Why rain on someone else's parade? (Or in this case, wake.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    So well done France. A truly remarkable display of discipline in a match where you had to defend for 70% of it.

    Indeed. Although it's hard to see how the officials couldn't find something to penalise in this dying minutes incident on the French line. Jeez ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Or else it could have been the anti depressants. During the replay of the game on TV3 this afternoon they ran the JK ad for coming forward if you are suffering from depression. I bet the phones have been ringing off the hook.

    I was talking to a female friend on the phone and she mentioned that the family violence ad I'm in screened first up after the post-match interviews (I was on my bike -- literally! -- by then).

    I hate the idea that a bloody sports team losing could even be contemplated as cause for family violence (and as Hadyn has pointed out here, the idea that unfortunate rugby losses make men beat their wives is an urban myth not borne out by the data) but that was an interesting bit of scheduling. Is Culture & Heritage going to say they can't play that?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    I'll just put this down to me not knowing what you think as you post.

    The sneering anticipated in the post you referred to is that inevitably forthcoming from Stephen Jones and his like.

    I like the look of the World cup now, the field looks wide open. I sort of want Argentina to win. If they do maybe it should become the Quadnations Comp tho' thats just looks ugly. Four Nations looks better.
    Hey I could pretend to like rugby if it mean cheap travel package deals to Sth America for supporters.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Indeed. Although it's hard to see how the officials couldn't find something to penalise in this dying minutes incident on the French line. Jeez ...

    Rugby unfortunately is probably more influenced by the referee than any other sport. Though somebody might be able to think of others.

    I have seen a club rugby final this year decided on a ridiculously bad referring decision and been on the wrong end of random incorrect calls in rugby finals as well which cost us the game.

    Even our school final a month or so ago had a touch judge ballsup which decided the match.

    The IRB has to address some of the issues which can clean it up and get some more consistency in there in terms of on field decision making. And the touch judges have got to get more involved at keeping players on side and calling forward passes that get missed every time there is a linebreak as nobody can keep up with the play to accurately call them.

    The scrums are also a joke. In the Australia v England game it wasn't until the second half that the ball actually entered a scrum. Yes there had been several in the first half but every single one of them resulted in a free kick or penalty before the ball even entered and England essentially won the match on the back of the Aussie scrum falling to pieces near their own sticks several times.

    It makes a mockery of the game where field position and collapsing scrums can earn you more points than scoring tries.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • reece palmer,

    At club level it is highly likely to be far more prevalent (ref error) given their voluntary status. There is a major problem in rugby in auckland in terms of the volunteers making them selves available because of the recriminations directed at them by sidline 'experts', which can and do become physical and violent. I do however see your point regarding the suitability of this particular fellow. So I would challenge you or others who complain about it to take action and become a referee, or a coach, or a manager. Or just to help out with transport with a team, (It sounds like you already do Yamis and good on you) our game needs people like that for it's survival at youth and age group level. Lets face it that's where the next crop are learning their love of it.

    the terraces • Since Nov 2006 • 298 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Irvine,

    Ouch.

    How about this for the comp:

    At least the French don't play cricket.
    Deaden your pain responsibly.
    Whiskey Galore.


    Righto

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 242 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    I've thought about getting into reffing but quite frankly due to my personal circumstances it would be too much.

    I have a lot of respect for match officials in league and rugby because they are horrendously bad to referee due to the rules and the interpretations and the fact that they rely on imaginary lines all the time.

    Imagine if in tennis there were no lines just umpires guessing whether it was in or out because that is what an offside line is and what you have to work out for knockons and forward passes. Not to mention the srums which are simply a guess as to who is responsible for it collapsing.

    The IRB will have to depower them in my opinion and lose the flankers. I'm serious, they have to start looking more like league to make it less reliant on the match officials.

    All I have 'reffed' so far is a bit of umpiring in cricket. It's not too bad because its teenage stuff and lower grades so the kids don't argue too much but they do often question your decisions even when it's absolutely blatant. Stuffed if I would get into anything with more riding on it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Paul:

    Disappointment is part of the human condition, so - it appears - is an wretched lack of proportion. Sorry, but I'm (perhaps disproportionately) narked off at hearing nonsense like we're all in a state of national mourning and losing a football game is any kind of 'national disaster'. Even on the level of headline hyperbole, that's so far over the top (IMO) its distasteful.

    And, hard as this may be to believe, my hackles go up when I hear people chipping at refs. Its a bloody thankless task, and while it's easy to second guess someone from the comfort of a bar stool (and the benefit of endless video) the poor bugger had to make a call, in that moment from exactly where he was standing.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Disappointment is part of the human condition, so - it appears - is an wretched lack of proportion. Sorry, but I'm (perhaps disproportionately) narked off at hearing nonsense like we're all in a state of national mourning and losing a football game is any kind of 'national disaster'. Even on the level of headline hyperbole, that's so far over the top (IMO) its distasteful.

    Perhaps so, but I've not seen such language here... I'm not mourning, I'm pissed off, I'm disappointed and I'm a little angry but I've had a great day in the park with my youngest and a nice meal so all-in-all it's been a nice day (and not too hot).

    Its a bloody thankless task

    Hang about, they're paid a fortune and are professionals - we're not talking about the 13th nursery here, we're talking about a bloke who's made his career out of blowing a whistle.

    Let's agree to disagree, I know where you're coming from and 'spect vice vera.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    You know, all this discussion on PA System has got me interested in rugby, and previously I was never interested in rugby.

    It got to the point where I got home today and I realised that I had all these thoughts and ideas about the RWC and the All Blacks' defeat, so I sat down and wrote something about it.

    Conclusion: the All Blacks are the best rugby team in the world.

    My next step is to get around to actually watching a whole rugby game.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Kennedy,

    For me, the best quote on the game was "A good team can be beaten by bad officiating; a great team overcomes it" (from the Andy Bull Guardian blog)

    Wellington/Hurricanes rugby have had a lot of good teams over the years, so to the rest of NZ, welcome to our world.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 224 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Let's agree to disagree, I know where you're coming from and 'spect vice vera.

    Quoted for 110-proof truthiness, Paul. :) Meanwhile, I'm just a little more depressed by this. Let's just say it's a rare day I'm on the same page as both the Sensible Sentencing Trust and Women's Refuge, but WTF! Your mileage may vary, but perhaps that was a little more worthy of a black-bordered Herald front page this morning than... guess what.

    Oh, and may I nominate Anton Oliver for Dork of the Day for this OTT military metaphor:

    Anton Oliver reckoned the All Blacks' dressing room had the same stench of death as a World War 1 battlefield. The veteran hooker has developed a passion for New Zealand's war history and read The Massacre at Passchendaele and All Quiet on the Western Front during the past few weeks in France.

    The images from those two books were an apt description for how the All Blacks felt as they sat, devastated, in their dressing room, Oliver said.

    "The feeling in the shed is like no-man's land as it's described in those two books. There's a sort of desolate decay and the smell of death.

    "That's what it feels like to us. It feels like no-man's land and it's not a nice place to be."

    OMG... you did not just go there, girlfriend! Howlingly vulgar at the best of times, but the timing was rather unfortunate, don't you think?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Oh, and may I nominate Anton Oliver for Dork of the Day for this OTT military metaphor:

    Glancing through the headlines and leaders around the news websites ( 'National Disaster!' 'Nation in Mourning!''Our Gods Have Fallen!' 'Our National Psyche has been Wounded!') I think there's going to be plenty of competition for that title.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    gyp: fr, noun

    1. referee

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    "A good team can be beaten by bad officiating; a great team overcomes it"

    I'd say that that is sports analogy of the worst kind. I will use the example of Tonga who were robbed of a possible victory over South Africa because the ref called time while there was still half a minute on the clock.

    Many of the rules in rugby are subjective to the referee (when has the ruck formed, time before the ball has to be used in the maul, how long a player has to roll away, whether the ball is out of the ruck) and many are non-subjective (foot on the line, offside, hands in the ruck).

    I would say that "a good team can overcome poor subjective refereeing but no team can overcome a ref who can't get the real stuff right."

    And if the teams are evenly matched (as it seems they were yesterday, remember it only came down to a missed conversion) a poor call or two can swing momentum.

    Can the refs be held accountable? Yes, of course they can. Each (top level) ref is judged by their peers and shown the mistakes they made after every match.

    ps. I don't like the ref but I'm not blaming him (any more)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

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