Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: TPP, eh?

216 Responses

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  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Alfie,

    all-too compliant mainstream media.

    They are too busy on secret Johnny (aka George Bush) visiting the boys in beige brigade in Iraq. So dangerous some had flack Jackets

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Alfie,

    Such small gains as have been secured are so insignificant that Tim Groser, the Trade Minister, could not even remember what they were.

    To look at it the Helen Clark way, would New Zealand have lost anything over what it already had, or maybe future trade-building opportunities, through not signing and being shut out of the club?

    I’ve had the feeling that New Zealand really would have needed another ANZUS-breaking anti-nuclear style rebellion to not sign the TPPA, but in modern times there doesn’t seem to be the same type of collective thing going in society as there might have been then. Plus, unlike David Lange who seemed to thrive on debate (when in form), our current Prime Minister prefers to sidestep difficult debate, has a luxury second home in Hawaii and plays golf with the US President. He’s not exactly a stereotype for rallying New Zealand independence.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Ross Francis,

    Meanwhile, consumption of cigarettes has dropped significantly in Australia since the introduction of plain packaging.

    Legal sales of cigarettes have dropped...

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smoking-taxes-make-cigarette-smuggling-an-increasingly-attractive-option-20150515-gh31ch.html

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to chris,

    KPMG report (PDF).

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Ah-here's the reference to Pharmac's pharmacoeconomic analysis framework I was talking about. Take a look at it and assess the implications for pharmaceutical policy, scope and scale of access yourselves:

    https://www.pharmac.health.nz/assets/pfpa-final.pdf

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 573 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Alfie,

    Best post-deal commentary I've read so far. Sums it up in a nutshell.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Ross Francis,

    What are the chances of Philip Morris winning? They have already lost Round 1 in the Australian courts. “Clearly, the High Court has decided that there hasn’t been an acquisition of property and so the claims by the tobacco industry that Governments are seizing its property are simply untrue.”

    I was just yesterday morning reading an analysis (that I now cannot find!) about the case vis TRIPS (I hadn't realised that Australia is also being subjected to WTO claims for breaching TRIPS), and one key point is that Australia's trademark legislation does not just guarantee mark-holders a right to exclude it also guarantees them a right to use. Which is a problem. My reading of our trademark law suggests we could well have the same problem as we have the same language: (paraphrased) "the owner of a registered trade mark has an exclusive right to use the mark."

    However, and hopefully the Edge or Andrew Geddis can weigh in, that could also be spun as a right only to exclusive presentation, not a right to derive benefit.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Gabor Toth, in reply to Swan,

    "Canada did OK by continuing to protect dairy / poultry,"

    The small fraction of Canada that work in the dairy or poultry industry did ok. The other 99.9%, lost out by continuing to overpay for food.

    And we don't? A quick check of a couple of Canadian supermarkets with on-line sales show their retail prices for milk and eggs being lower than in NZ.
    Here we drop all subsidies and protectionist measures but the domestic consumer still gets shafted.

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 137 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Gabor Toth,

    And we don’t? A quick check of a couple of Canadian supermarkets with on-line sales show their retail prices for milk and eggs being lower than in NZ.

    I’d be prepared to believe that NZ pays more than other places, but if Canadian and US farmers are being heavily subsidised by taxpayers then it’s not really a fair comparison to simply look at end retail prices.

    NZ still does subsidise its own industry in certain ways which aren’t well quantified for comparison, and which the current government has little interest in researching how to quantify. eg. The externalities we’re putting up with in polluted water, as dairy intensifies so that the industry can flourish and export even more. Sure, some of the benefit gets spread around but part of it is also subsidising private gain.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • Henry Barnard,

    Hillary Clinton on the TPP

    It is interesting to note that, on the same day, Wayne Mapp says

    The US legislators will also know that TPP is about US leadership in the Asia Pacific. Failure to ratify would be tantamount to abandonment of any such ambitions. And any presidential contender worth his or her salt will know this.

    Palmerston North • Since Aug 2013 • 65 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Henry Barnard,

    Yes, can't wait to see how our executive branch tries to spin that one. Why in the world did Obama push it like he did - I'd have thought an agreement which the public perceives to favour the worst of their own corporate lobbyists would be the last sort of legacy he'd have wanted for his presidency. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

    Free trade, it's a dying concept. The Canadian government is spinning it quite the opposite - they are crowing about how well their negotiators did to protect their industries from any such 'incoming' free trade.

    Such a shame it ever expanded beyond the original P4.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    It looks like Hillary Clinton has flip-flopped on the TPPA and will no longer support Obama's trade agreement.

    Her reversal could complicate the path to final ratification in Congress for a trade pact that President Obama has called central to cementing his domestic economic agenda and foreign policy strategy in Asia. Republican leaders, who have been more supportive of Obama’s trade agenda, have also raised concerns this week about the final pact.

    Hope remains.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1438 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to izogi,

    Sure, some of the benefit gets spread around but part of it is also subsidising private gain.

    I have looked at all the, available, stuff so far and have a little extra to add to Izogi’s last point and that is…
    It is a big win for the middlemen.
    The “rights holders”, the patent holders, the “owners” of “Trademarks” and those that hold shares in those industries and companies that rely, completely, in standing between suppliers/creators and the customer or supporter.
    Just another step in the direction of more power to the wealthy.
    Those who find themselves on trade mark infringement charges could pay more, with New Zealand courts to be given new discretion to award additional damages.
    Those penalties would come on top of the compensatory damages already provided for under New Zealand law for trade mark infringement.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Henry Barnard,

    It is interesting to note that, on the same day, Wayne Mapp says

    Brash's former "political correctness eradicator" isn't about to break his streak of being on the wrong side of history any time soon.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    From Joe’s link…

    National has created the menacing-sounding role of “political correctness eradicator” to counter the Government’s “PC” culture that it says is eroding New Zealanders’ rights and freedoms.

    Which particular New Zealanders would they be I wonder?.
    The ones described as “Prominent New Zealanders”? some even with permanent name suppression.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Just stumbled upon this…
    Even the Americans were against the TPPA

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Henry Barnard,

    Deafening silence on TV ONE and TV3 news bulletins on Hillary Clinton's comments about the TPPA. Putin's success at Ice Hockey far more important! I really hate conspiracy theories but am beginning to wonder. Political journalists hijacked for a trip to Iraq?

    This really only leaves Jeb Bush out front in favour of the TPPA - and, thus, I guess, Wayne Mapp's favoured candidate for POTUS.

    Palmerston North • Since Aug 2013 • 65 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    The externalities we’re putting up with in polluted water, as dairy intensifies

    and which corrupted regional regulators can just ignore. Arseholes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Henry Barnard,

    Political journalists hijacked for a trip to Iraq?

    I’d never say the party strategists didn’t delight in the thought of a distraction, but I think that had plenty of political value all by itself. It looked more to be about getting glowing excited reports on government policy in exchange for privileged access to something not normally available, plus the right to tick off the boxes on the CV about wearing body armour and reporting in a war zone.

    I get that reportage of this type of thing mightn’t happen at all if it didn’t happen as part of a propaganda-style PR stunt, but media still really needs to clearly disclose how their experience is being managed when they report on things like this. It would have been far more helpful to be outside the compound, talking to real people and examining the genuine relevance and likely effectiveness of what’s happening there, but that was never going to happen on this trip for multiple reasons. We’re lucky, at least, to have someone like Jon Stephenson (any others?) who seems to be capable of visiting and reporting on those sorts of places with a smattering of independence, but look what he’s just had to go through from friendly fire as a consequence!

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to izogi,

    the right to tick off the boxes on the CV about wearing body armour and reporting in a war zone.

    I think that's exactly what it is. About once a year the political journos get to do the things they see in movies (reporting from the White House or a war zone) and they act like the county traffic cop who's been invited to tag along with the FBI for a day. It's embarrassing to watch.

    It's also annoying that they think we're all stupid - or they pretend to. "John Key's secret mission - we could not reveal until now!". Er, note to our Pulitzer wannabes - it was "revealed" as soon as the PM disappeared from the media. When he doesn't show up for his Monday morning round, anyone who's at all awake will know that he's either on vacation or off to visit troops. And if it was a vacation, we'd be hearing about golf and Max's videos.

    It doesn't bother me that it's kept "secret" for legitimate security reasons, it just irritates that journalists act like nobody else could possibly have figured it out.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1332 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to simon g,

    It doesn’t bother me that it’s kept “secret” for legitimate security reasons, it just irritates that journalists act like nobody else could possibly have figured it out.

    If it was so bloody dangerous why show up with an entourage of Media at all?. Patrick Gower forgot his passport, must have been really worth going that far without it, to suddenly not be allowed the next flight in a Hercules. This was just a Key/Bush copycat visit to troops for a fucking photo op. This snake knows no bounds of crass behaviour. Why leap over there just as the TPP was announced and what did it achieve? Absolutely nothing. Secret mission, my arse. The only thing I suspect can happen from it is, an announcement that the troops stay will be extended. Key has started the chat about how safe they are and how needed they are, and look at that, photos of important person (in his mind) seen supporting the farce. Of course Gerry has already set the stage over here
    Then as Key keeps assuring the public about extending the troops deployment, the wording changes ever so slightly

    I think there should be an exit point and that exit point at about two years feels about right to me.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Attachment Attachment

    This was just a Key/Bush copycat visit to troops for a fucking photo op.

    <copied over from the Capture Sunrise thread>

    <a Flag aside>
    Did any one else also notice in most of the pictures of John Key in Iraq that there were plenty of Kiwi symbols and NZ flags – Key had to take one right under the chin (on his flak jacket!) – but NO ferns on show…
    Just sayin’…

    I also note in the other photos that between Baghdad airport and the camp he ditched the flak jacket with a flag for one without (for whatever reason) and he put on the Kiwi cap – no ‘frondly’ fire incidents at all…

    <photos from the Stuff article>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Why leap over there just as the TPP was announced

    Quite possibly because the visit schedule was laid down several months ago? You know, just to point out the bloody obvious. Heads-of-government don't just trot off to visit active conflict zones on a whim. Even a fortnight ago nobody knew that the TPP was going to be concluded over this weekend just been. Hell, a week ago it wasn't known.
    And it has been in the planning since at least June.

    Sometimes coincidental timing is a genuine coincidence.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    A little more TPPA info dribbles out.

    According to documents released on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website late Thursday afternoon, medicine safety regulator Medsafe must notify a drug company if a generic version of their product has been submitted for approval.

    "New Zealand will also need to ensure there is sufficient time and opportunity for a patent owner to seek preliminary injunctions to resolve patent disputes prior to a generic version of its patented medicine entering the market," the documents said.

    The term "sufficient time" doesn't appear to be defined. Could we be talking years? If so it's easy to imagine a scenario where drug companies keep Pharmac tied up in courts for so long that the generics issue becomes academic.

    The Government... said it will also need to impose new "civil and criminal" sanctions against people breaking technological protection measures (TPMs), that are generally used to prevent unauthorised access to digital material in different markets.

    TPMs are often used to help copyright owners charge different prices for their creations in different countries.

    That should knock out several grey markets nicely.

    It was unclear whether circumventing blocks on overseas websites, such as overseas internet television services, would need to become an offence, Carter said.

    Damn... there goes the VPN.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1438 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers,

    I think it might be within the letter of the TPPA to require the buyers of homes to be resident in NZ.....but anyone from a TPPA country can buy such homes "without restriction" - whatever that means - provided they are resident in NZ. I don't see the residency requirement as discriminatory or restrictive. Aren't we allowed to make any distinction at all between citizens and non-residents? If we can tax them - as the government has suggested - how is that any different?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 312 posts Report Reply

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