Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Kim Dotcom vs. The Teapot Tapes

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  • Graeme Edgeler,

    How would you do this without being political?

    You'd complain to police, and send out a media advisory:

    The Green Party considers that allegations of illegal spying are very serious. Today, we have written to Police asking them to commence a criminal investigation.

    This is a serious matter, so we will not be commenting further on the question of criminal charges while Police are investigating.

    Someone else - perhaps me - would have made the teapot link for them. And they could have focused on issues about which they can actually have an influence: political oversight of our intelligence agencies, and possible law changes, for example.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    they could have focused on issues about which they can actually have an influence: political oversight of our intelligence agencies, and possible law changes, for example.

    Which is what their probable coalition partners Labour did in calling for a broader inquiry. Complementary action, you might say.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Geddis,

    "I await the results of the police investigation with interest."

    I can tell you what those results will be right now. Whatever evidence there may be that a crime was committed, the "public interest" requirement of the Solicitor General's prosecution guidelines has not been met.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2007 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Andrew Geddis,

    Nothing to see here.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Ian MacKay,

    ".... the "public interest" requirement of the Solicitor General's prosecution guidelines has not been met."
    I wonder if the negating of the Erabus Inquiry was the result of pressure to preserve the Public Interest. And so it will be here perhaps to preserve or repair, the Good standing of our Security Service and that of the PM.
    Wonder if there will be public pressure/outrage if it becomes Sacha's, "Nothing to see here?"

    Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Its not looking good or as if it will be very open.
    You know who else acts like this when caught out?

    Criminals.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • martinb,

    but the man whose communications were intercepted was not yet prime minister of New Zealand.

    (ps. can Kim Dotcom become Prime Minister? Or do we have a have to be born here criteria?)

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to Andrew Geddis,

    This public interest test is determined by column inches in the editorial of the new H ??(on a slow Monday?)

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to martinb,

    ps. can Kim Dotcom become Prime Minister? Or do we have a have to be born here criteria?

    The only requirement is that the PM be an MP, which requries citizenship.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Andrew Geddis,

    I can tell you what those results will be right now. Whatever evidence there may be that a crime was committed, the "public interest" requirement of the Solicitor General's prosecution guidelines has not been met.

    Because obviously, its not in the "public interest" for agents of the state to be prosecuted when they break the law.

    Rule of law? What's that? Laws are for plebs, not for spies.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Andrew Geddis,

    the "public interest" requirement of the Solicitor General's prosecution guidelines

    Any handy writeups on what that is and some case examples, mayhaps?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    (ps. can Kim Dotcom become Prime Minister? Or do we have a have to be born here criteria?)

    Most recent PM born outside of NZ was Michael Joseph Savage, who was born in Australia (moved here when he was about 35). Probably predates the rule of citizenship?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    Most recent PM born outside of NZ was Michael Joseph Savage . . .

    His successor Peter Fraser was born in Scotland. The most recent foreign-born PM was the Englishman Walter Nash.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    I thought John Key was conceived in Aranui but born on Planet Key?
    Like Superman but without the dressy skin tights?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime,

    If Kim Dotcom brought a private prosecution against the GCSB, is it conceivable that he obtain a search order under the High Court Rules?

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime,

    The most recent foreign-born PM was the Englishman Walter Nash

    Unless you count Hugh Watt (born in Perth) who was acting PM after Kirk died. But that was only 6 days and a caretaker role.

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Pete Sime,

    If Kim Dotcom brought a private prosecution against the GCSB, is it conceivable that he obtain a search order under the High Court Rules?

    The High Court rules apply to civil proceedings, not criminal proceedings.

    It used to be possible to obtain a (criminal) search warrant, which would force the police to conduct a search, but the Search and Surveillance Act came into force today, and it no longer is. Under the High Court Rules, the (Acting) Prime Minister's certificate will stop too many questions being asked/answered.

    In relation to the suggestion that the GCSB could be charged, I encourage you to read my latest post: http://publicaddress.net/legalbeagle/dotcom-spying-crown-criminal-liability/

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    His successor Peter Fraser was born in Scotland. The most recent foreign-born PM was the Englishman Walter Nash.

    Well that was some awful wikipedia reading on my part :(

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to martinb,

    While he's a fun piece of ginger up the backside of certain politicians right now, I wouldn't want him actually running the country. Winnie and Hide in unholy synergy....

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    Well that was some awful wikipedia reading on my part :(

    I didn't know about Watt. Remember how Harry Duynhoven was briefly outed as a Dutch double agent, despite being NZ born? I think it took a bit of quick retrospective legislation to avoid a by-election and allow MPs to hold dual citizenship.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    a bit of quick retrospective legislation

    ..lest anyone think expediency over principle is the province of only one side of the House.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    Because it's a fundamental principle that renewing dual nationality should disqualify an MP?

    I would have thought the opposite was true - we shouldn't discriminate against people according to nationality.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    His breaching the citizenship requirements of being an MP was only a problem because the govt needed his vote. Similar to the contortions we've seen over not holding Banks accountable recently. That's all I was getting at.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    I didn’t know about Watt. Remember how Harry Duynhoven was briefly outed as a Dutch double agent, despite being NZ born? I think it took a bit of quick retrospective legislation to avoid a by-election and allow MPs to hold dual citizenship.

    And. of course, United Future’s Kelly Chal, who spent a grand total of 17 days as an MP – until it was revealed she only had Permanent Residence and therefore ineligible to stand for Parliament.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Geddis,

    @Joe Wylie: "Remember how Harry Duynhoven was briefly outed as a Dutch double agent, despite being NZ born? I think it took a bit of quick retrospective legislation to avoid a by-election and allow MPs to hold dual citizenship."

    MPs were allowed to hold dual citizenship ... provided they held it when they got elected. Duynhoven's problem arose when he tried to (re)claim his Dutch citizenship whilst an MP. The retrospective legislation said that MPs could do this without vacating their seats - a legal rule then made permanent.

    @Deep Red: "And. of course, United Future’s Kelly Chal, who spent a grand total of 17 days as an MP ... . "

    Chal never was an MP - she resigned after the election but before the Chief Electoral Officer made the official declaration of list MPs. Had she not resigned before that declaration and it subsequently was found out that she wasn't a citizen, it is arguable that there would have been no legal way to oust her from the House! Fun and games then certainly would have commenced ... .

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2007 • 206 posts Report Reply

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