Island Life: The resignation of Captain Worth
355 Responses
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I don't have much tolerance for sexual harassment or its enablers, but I don't like self-serving bullshit either. I don't see how anyone but Goff himself is responsible for his behaviour, which I'm seriously underwhelmed by.
Indeed, you seem considerably more focused on blaming Goff that anyone else involved.
Meanwhile, 3410, if someone comes to you claiming they've been subject to sexual harassment you'd take it seriously, and do everything in your power to make sure its reported promptly to the appropriate authority. And that wouldn't be the CEo's office.
Eh? Worth is a minister of the Crown. He is the Prime Minister's responsibility. Goff brought the matter to the Prime Minister's office. Where it was shelved.
Goff didn't actually make any public comment on the earlier case until Key blurted out that there had been previous allegations brought to his attention, on his way into the chamber on Wednesday.
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3410,
Meanwhile, 3410, if someone comes to you claiming they've been subject to sexual harassment you'd take it seriously, and do everything in your power to make sure its reported promptly to the appropriate authority. And that wouldn't be the CEo's office.
It's not a workplace matter. Worth was not an employee, an employer, or a work colleague of the complainant. There is no CEO in a relevant analogy. This is about two things: conduct unbecoming of a Minister, and misuse of Ministerial position.
If the Prime Minister was not the proper authority to report this to, I've yet to hear what is, and if the Prime Minister was not the proper authority to report this to, then the Prime Minister surely has a greater obligation than does the Leader of the Opposition to report it to the proper authority.
In all honesty, if Key would just say "Yeah, I could've handled it better, I suppose," then I, a life-long Nat-hater ;), would say "Fair enough. Let's move on to the substance of the matter."
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Shaz,
I think by "appropriate authority" Craig means the police.. Just a thought, but sometimes when you're being harrassed you don't want the harrasser to front up to police, you just want them to cut that shit out. Which is pretty much what the first woman said.
Craig, you seem to be implying that if it's not serious enough to go to the cops it's not serious enough to object to. This kind of thinking is one of the reasons why so few women complain in anyway about harrassment. -
Shaz,
or men..
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Wow. Why don't you save us the time and just link to the National Party talking points Craig?
Because I don't have access to them, Tom, and as I'm far from impressed with either Key or Goff it's a little implausible to make claims of partisan hackery. Nice try.
Eh? Worth is a minister of the Crown. He is the Prime Minister's responsibility.
And, like Clark before him, Key withdrew his ministerial warrant while (to coin a phrase) allegations where swirling around him. As far as I'm aware, the Prime Minister's Office is not an arm of the Police or SSC.
We might all be better off if Goff had very strongly encouraged the complainant to take these allegations went to the State Services Commission or some apolitical body (because offering jobs in exchange for sexual favours is very bad shit), and contacted her telco for advice how to block the unwanted texts.
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3410,
as I'm far from impressed with either Key or Goff it's a little implausible to make claims of partisan hackery.
Nice try, yourself.
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And, like Clark before him, Key withdrew his ministerial warrant while (to coin a phrase) allegations where swirling around him.
But in the case of the matter brought to him by Goff -- which is the one we're discussing -- he didn't.
As far as I'm aware, the Prime Minister's Office is not an arm of the Police or SSC.
Even if they are as alleged, Worth's actions may not have been criminal. I can't see what they'd have to do with the SSC at all. But they should certainly have been of concern to the Prime Minister.
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I'm getting a little puzzled by Craig's suggestions that it be taken to the SSC and/or Police, TBH. Inasmuch as an MP works for anyone, they work for their party leader. In Worth's case that would be, oh, Key. There is no higher authority, as 3410 pointed out, unless you want to take it to the GG as the person who signed Worth's ministerial warrant.
We're talking about lewd messages, not threatening ones. It's very, very arguable that there's any criminal case to answer, no matter how distasteful the whole situation may be. Sexual harassment isn't ordinarily a criminal matter, only an employment one. Since we're talking about a very murky employment situation, the PM as a) the only person who can fire the Minister and b) the leader of the Party and thus the head of the body that can deliver the only other sanctions, is the only logical choice.
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I'm getting a little puzzled by Craig's suggestions that it be taken to the SSC and/or Police
I'm just waiting for him to bring in the Korean and Indian dimension. It's plainly a job for McCully.
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Ahem, I may have inadvertently done that by responding on your other live thread before reading this one.
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In other news, the Dom Post reveals the other mystery person Worth was coming on to:
The standoff in the Richard Worth saga continued today with no meeting arranged between the woman who has complained that he harassed her and Prime Minister John Key
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Much respect for Goff going to Key. Not a point scoring excercise
this was a matter of human dignity (or possibly safety).Key hasn't done at all well and to avoid simply talking to this woman now has the smell of the Cronulla Sharks locker room around it.
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I'm just waiting for him to bring in the Korean and Indian dimension. It's plainly a job for McCully.
WTF are you going on about David? If you want to call me a racist, try not being quite so passive-agressively Whaleoily about it.
Key hasn't done at all well and to avoid simply talking to this woman now has the smell of the Cronulla Sharks locker room around it.
Yup, John Key is effectively enabling a rapist. Want to cross post that over at Kiwibog or Whaleoily's House? Could someone enlighten me what this meeting is actually supposed to achieve?
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If you want to call me a racist
You're a mile off, Craig. Which was my point.
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Could someone enlighten me what this meeting is actually supposed to achieve?
Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure it would help get to the bottom of some fairly serious allegations about the conduct of a minister of the Crown.
I presume that when he was for the meeting before he was against it, Key thought the same thing.
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Dick Griffin seemed adamant on Q&A yesterday that Key meeting the first complainant was not a goer politically, and questioned the quality of support the PM was getting.
Craig, speaking as one who got the wrong end of that same stick recently, I do not believe anyone was labelling you as racist.
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Craig, speaking as one who got the wrong end of that same stick recently, I do not believe anyone was labelling you as racist.
Sacha: I'd certainly like to think David doesn't think so, but I don't get why he felt the need to go there.
I don't think the ethnicity of the complainant in sexual harassment cases is relevant in any way, shape or form. If sexual predators target minority women because they're seen as sexually 'loose' or 'easy' targets who are less likely to be believed if they make trouble, that's a whole new level of grotesque. I don't know what I've said or done around here to make anyone think I believe otherwise.
If anyone has tried to put a racial angle on this to discredit the complainants, I'd rather those comments be addressed directly and be left out of it.
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I believe ethnicity was constantly highlighted in the media, as noted by Bronwyn on t'other thread. Sure, cultural factors affect how harassment is treated but it seemed like lazy reporting.
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Oh look, Mr Slack has a fresh thread about sloppy media.
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I don't know what I've said or done around here to make anyone think I believe otherwise.
Oh for pity's sake.
My point was: this is not - as you argued it to be - a workplace matter, and not therefore something to be dealt with as a workplace matter.
My extended argument: you're barking up the wrong tree.
My illustration of the extended argument: One of the parties may have come from India, another may have come from Korea. This could be a matter of international relations. McCully should be doing something.I'd certainly like to think David doesn't think so
I've said so. That's what I meant by "a mile off".
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I believe that in his own threads David comes with a built in sarcasm tag. If he writes "call in the police" I for one am not inclined to race for the phone.
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Call in the police.
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I don't think the ethnicity of the complainant in sexual harassment cases is relevant in any way, shape or form. If sexual predators target minority women because they're seen as sexually 'loose' or 'easy' targets who are less likely to be believed if they make trouble, that's a whole new level of grotesque. I don't know what I've said or done around here to make anyone think I believe otherwise.
I don't think anyone has said or implied that minority women are "loose", "easy", or "less likely to be believed".
The implication, if anything, was that Worth might see them less likely to complain about sexual harassment. I certainly wouldn't know what he was thinking, but there is quite a bit of research that suggests that minority women are indeed less likely to complain in those circumstances.
And you did see fit to directly accuse Phil Goff of racism in the other thread:
I really hope I seriously misheard Mr Goff telling the listeners of Newstalk ZB that Indians don't make a fuss about that kind of thing. Strikes me as not only rude (because those brown ladies don't make a fuss when their menfolk are douche-baggy, Phil?) but a wee bit racist.
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A spokesperson today said that no action would be taken against John Campbell for breaching a cordon around the scene of the seige in Devonport. The current affairs presenter had bragged at a cocktail party about scaling a nearby hill to secure an advantage over rival networks. The hostage was eventually released once the criminals began riffling through his record collection.
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And on the previous page, I linked to one relevant point about one of the complainants being Korean - Worth's role and relationships with that particular community.
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