Island Life by David Slack

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Island Life: Re Joyce!

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  • Wammo,

    So what kind of email is actually opened at the National Party? I wonder what it takes for an email sent to the National Party to get noticed in an inbox? "Million Dollars contained within - click here"

    To be fair any corporate network worth its salt should have flagged the message as spam - million dollars offered by reclusive religious sect, just reply, go on hit the reply button... on par with any number of Nigerian royal family scams!

    But wait! The Exclusive Brethren don't use email, they instead believe that a super computer based somewhere in South Africa will eventually mind control all of us using RFID tags in our passports. As foretold by Revelations in the Exclusive Brethren Bible, as told to me by the Exclusive Brethren kid I used to sit next to at high school.

    Yeah so where is Mr Joyce?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 42 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Baker,

    Off topic, but nice start today by Key & English - good messages: "I want an inclusive, multicultural New Zealand" and "those people [extremists, religious and economic] won't have a part to play in our National Party"... keep it up guys, and you will do well at the next election.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 10 posts Report Reply

  • Juha Saarinen,

    8 out 12.

    I've got an idea. No, no, this is a good one: ask the EBs to fund and design a new stadium!

    I'm sure they could come up with something more weep-worthy than this.

    Oh, we need start lashing back at Eden Park now.

    Since Nov 2006 • 529 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Well, Jeremy, it might get them elected, but the proof would be in the pudding. Key's voting record suggests he and I have very different visions of an inclusive society.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Juha Saarinen,

    In fact, I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile to build an application that based on how MPs vote, puts them on a scale of whatever-winginess.

    Crib sheet for the electorate, basically. Mr Slack has taken the first step...

    Since Nov 2006 • 529 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Cresswell,

    In fact, I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile to build an application that based on how MPs vote, puts them on a scale of whatever-winginess."

    Now there's an idea worth a geek somewhere pursuing.

    Couldn't be too difficult to map the votes on to two axes, one for personal freedom and one for economic freedom, and voila!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    rodgerd: Key's voting record suggests he and I have very different visions of an inclusive society.

    Well, he did vote against the Foreshore and Seabed Act ... is that a start?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    Good point, David. That occurred to me too.

    Even if Brash and Key didn't read the email, and Brash simply forwarded it to Joyce without even opening it, there is no way I will ever believe that National had a million dollar deal going with the Brethren and Joyce didn't think to mention it to either Brash or Key at some point. Ha!

    It is so__tiring listening to them lie and lie and lie. You would think at some point they'd have the balls to say "OK, I messed up, I lied, I'm sorry - I will try not to do it again and I will learn from my mistakes". Lordy, lordy, wouldn't that gain people's respect? But no - they just have to keep on lying and lying to the bitter end. Ugh.

    Mind you, having been a somewhat __obsessive watcher of American politics over the past 6 years, I can tell you that the biggest lesson I have learned is that if they say categorically that they don't do something, or that something never happened (like torture or illegal wiretapping for example), you can be damned sure that exactly the opposite is true.

    Once you figure that out, it's easy to hear the truth. Just turn everything they say upside-down and you'll be close.

    Just like 1984.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 332 posts Report Reply

  • Manakura,

    Well, he did vote against the Foreshore and Seabed Act ... is that a start?

    What exactly do you mean by that Graeme?

    Whaingāroa • Since Nov 2006 • 134 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    i'm inclined to agree with webweaver. the entire matter smacks of "plausible denial".

    john howard and the AWB are another example. that evil little shit.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Re the vote on the foreshore and seabed act, I hope that's a principled stand against state alienation of private (in this case Maori) property rights. We'll see...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    Couldn't be too difficult to map the votes on to two axes, one for personal freedom and one for economic freedom, and voila!

    Trouble is, mostly their votes are party whipped. (ie: You are obliged to vote according to your party's position).That's principally why I chose Key's conscience votes and preferences expressed in his speeches. ( In which regard, such express positions took a little finding, which chimes with Peter's assertions here - recommended reading - about what motivates Key and English to run.)

    Still, it would be interesting to trawl through the speeches and statements and Hansard to try and tease out express positions they've taken, and map them.

    As for conscience votes, they're well catalogued here.

    One further consideration that muddies the water: MPs will sometimes maintain that they should cast their conscience vote according to the wishes, as they perceive them, of their electorate.

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard,

    For what it's worth, some church out in the Kapiti Bible Belt rated all the parties from "moral" to "immoral", based on the conscience votes of their MPs. That's only one dimension of political beliefs, of course, but it's the one most likely to be open to conscience voting.

    Just for a laugh, I combined the "immorality index" of the parties with the party vote at each booth in Wellington at last year's election. Then I graphed the results and mapped them to show the "moral" geography. Doing the same for the "individualist to collectivist" spectrum is left as an exercise for the reader.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    Then I graphed the results and mapped them to show the "moral" geography

    That's a very big red dot over Kelburn. Llew, I can see your house from here.

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    What exactly do you mean by that Graeme?

    While some refer to the Orewa speech as the most divisive thing to happen to NZ race relations in some time, I'd suggest that that would actually be the Foreshore and Seabed Act.

    If anything, Orewa created a bi-partisan ('though not non-partisan or multi-partisan) consensus on race in NZ - that Government should be funding 'need not race'.

    People were asking for an inlcusive society - I was suggesting that one in which the PM refers to Maori opposed to the Foreshore and Seabed Act as 'Haters and Wreckers', and prefers to talk to sheep, probably isn't that inclusive.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    That's a very big red dot over Kelburn. Llew, I can see your house from here.

    Well we do our very best for the cause.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    and prefers to talk to sheep

    What are you saying here?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    David,

    I am pleased you posted this I was starting to think I was the only one still interested in the question of how long can Brash keep telling us porkies on this subject.

    After an initial interest in the subject most media now seem to be willing to now give not only Don but also John a passo n this question.

    Brash Responds – I Didn't Read The Email Either!

    Dr Don Brash Explains Himself To National Radio

    It is kinda astonishing to me how he manages to wriggle out of being confronted on the lying issue in all his interviews.

    "I did not knowingly mislead the public"

    yeah right.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 220 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    After an initial interest in the subject most media now seem to be willing to now give not only Don but also John a pass on this question.

    I read it this way: the media give Don a pass not so much because they accept his word, but because he's history.

    Conversely, the rights/rites of honeymoon get Key a pass no matter how dubious his defence might sound. He's the new player and they don't want to see him bloodbinned after thirty seconds.

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    Yes...

    Plus also in the case of Key. They really do like him.... as someone in the office pointed out yesterday after his presser.... Key has taken the art of smarmy into an entirely new planetary system.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 220 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Key has taken the art of smarmy into an entirely new planetary system

    I haven't actually paid much attention to the guy Alastair - partly because he's so smarmy looking I cannot bear to read whatever text accompanies his picture.

    Is it just an unfortunate look? Or is he really as smarmy as he appears?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Rogan Polkinghorne,

    Ummm, I got 9 out of 12 on that quiz, having never heard anything about Mr Key's voting habits...I used my unfounded stereotypes of National voting behaviours and what do you know? I'm a genius!

    A-town • Since Nov 2006 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    Worth tuning in: Rod Oram is on Nine to Noon right now talking about Key's economic direction. Key was interviewed in the first hour, but no audio on the site yet.

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    Might have to listen on radionz.co.nz

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 220 posts Report Reply

  • Manakura,

    While some refer to the Orewa speech as the most divisive thing to happen to NZ race relations in some time, I'd suggest that that would actually be the Foreshore and Seabed Act.

    I would tend to agree with that analysis, but only because of the power factor. That is, Brash would have been a far more racially divise force if he had the power to be so, he just didn't get the chance, (I wonder if he ever really believed Orewa I??). But in saying that I must admit I find Clark much more morally repugnant for her behaviour over the foreshore and seabed.

    I think you will most Maori, myself included, fail to see any substantial difference between Labour and National in terms of the way they will cynically exploit us if it suits their purposes. We have a joke that you tell what major party is in power by whether the knife is in your front (National) or your back (Labour).

    I am just patiently wating for demographics to allow Maori to take back responsibility for their lives, land and whanau.

    Whaingāroa • Since Nov 2006 • 134 posts Report Reply

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