Island Life: Driving around Mt Eden, looking for a bed.
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Thanks Steven for the windjammers, the first Cape Horn/Alan Villiers one especially. What a voice, and what if there're a few casualties, arrr arrrr.
But as an alternative to containerised prisons? Seems more like suggestion to gummint of boat camps as alternative to boot camps really. Could almost even make sense?
My grandfather, apparently to to get him away from a spot of bother, was sent to sea as a teenage apprentice in such a ship. Did several trips via Cape of Good Hope, Britain to Calcutta and back, before the ship itself became a casualty. Some old-fashioned types might consider he became a good citizen. So the troublesome youth of today - send them around Cape Horn and straight ahead around the Southern Ocean, by the time they're back in NZ the miracle of correction has happened? -
A friend of ours is a Skipper for the Spirit of NZ. They have a programme for at risk youth, and there is a great success rate with that. I also know guys who went on it as youngsters who felt they would be on the wrong side now had it not been for the programme. The ocean seems to have an effect plus of course the responsibility to the ship and ownership of your actions toward others. I've seen them many years later thank our mate for being there for them.
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I don't have an opinion on the efficacy of going to sea for "troubled" youth, but I know that if anyone were to propose it seriously, then regardless of its merits the usual suspects would immediately start moaning about the waste and injustice of rewarding villlainy with a lovely cruise. Cause the point of boot camp is putting the boot in.
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Steven, I'm intrigued. How did the sea cure you?
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Having been obliged to pop back to hospital early today for a cup of morphine and a lie-down, I was obliged to listen to Danny Watson's talkback show on Newstalk ZB.
Danny was fired up about the container idea, demanding to know how a container-based cell could cost even $380,000, and taking calls from blokes who reckoned they could do it cheaper.
When one chap rang up and said that everyone who'd committed three strikes should be locked up "and throw away the key for ever -- they wouldn't even have names any more" Danny congratulated him: "Our listeners will love your ideas!"
But no one seemed to grasp that it doesn't cost $643,000 to build a single prison cell (or $380,000 with containers).
The new Meremere prison works out at around $643,000 per bed . Can't anyone with a functioning intellect grasp that the per bed cost also includes kitchens, sanitary facilities, a prison infirmary, security facilities and the various other things required by a pirson of a given size?
Apparently not, when John Key can say this:
Mr Key said prisons were running out capacity and cheaper options had to be found to house prisoners.
Under the previous government it had cost more than $600,000 to build a single new prison cell.
"That is an outrageous sum of money, that is more than the average cost of the average New Zealand home. I can't see that the public are going to support a situation where prisoners are going to be put in a cell that cost more than there house," Mr Key said.
Note also the awesome spelling mistake in the Herald's NZPA story. Does everyone have stupid flu or something?
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kitchens, sanitary facilities, a prison infirmary, security facilities and the various other things required by a pirson of a given size?
Do understand that but this is supposed to be in existing prisons and lets face it Hautu, Rangipo and a few others do have the land already so it would be adding more wardens ,and shower facilities and seeing as everyone cares about the inmates health, enlarging the infirmary, but the kitchens would cope so I would be interested in a better cost analysis, or at least a transparent one. I'm now going to the doctor to see if I have the Stupid flu ;)
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Oh dear. So we're not allowed to discuss it unless we're architects or cost analysts with experience of building prisons? Cheap shot.
What Sam F said.
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"They've spent quite a bit of time learning to be good at it, and our recently built prisons rate quite well."
Ngāwhā Prison anyone?
Northland geologist Roger Brand says four years ago he warned the department that the site would be unstable and it could take years for the peat sub-soils to drain and settle. Brand predicts more cracks will appear in the prison walls.
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So the troublesome youth of today - send them around Cape Horn and straight ahead around the Southern Ocean, by the time they're back in NZ the miracle of correction has happened?
Hell yes, it makes more sense than sticking them in shipping containers
Hah, with Crusher Colins on board you can do both. Stick 'em in a container and send 'em round the world. When it comes back, hose it out, put in a brand new prisoner and ship it off again. Cheap as Chips.
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Ngāwhā Prison anyone?
Northland geologist Roger Brand says four years ago he warned the department that the site would be unstable and it could take years for the peat sub-soils to drain and settle. Brand predicts more cracks will appear in the prison walls.
And they put it on top of a sensitive site for the local iwi, who protested for years to no avail.
Prisons must be built, you see. On that, Labour and National agree.
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Steven, I'm intrigued. How did the sea cure you?
The salt. It's a wonderful preservative.
Badoom-tsh.
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Ngāwhā Prison anyone?
Well that's not building prisons, that's building anything. Prisons are no more resistant to geology than other structures.
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Kyle your comments are contradictory. Either the prisons follow best practise, such as the basic site selection and geology reports or they don't.
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Hah, with Crusher Colins on board you can do both. Stick 'em in a container and send 'em round the world. When it comes back, hose it out, put in a brand new prisoner and ship it off again. Cheap as Chips.
You've just reminded me of an episode of 'The Shield' I saw once.
Corrupt cops stick two drug gang kingpins in a shipping container and tell them there's only room for one of them on their turf. They'll be back in the morning to let the survivor out.
Could be a winner. Wire up the containers with webcams and stick it on pay per view.
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Kyle your comments are contradictory. Either the prisons follow best practise, such as the basic site selection and geology reports or they don't.
Best practice in prison design which means the layout and structure of the buildings, not what's underneath them. I'm not sure why they decided to build there, but could find out.
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Could be a winner. Wire up the containers with webcams and stick it on pay per view.
Hmmm. Two men enter, one man leaves. Sounds familiar?
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Hmmm. Two men enter, one man leaves. Sounds familiar?
Better still, the finest men in America don't run for President. They run for their lives.
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More as the pages are dried and separated...
Yep , the Spirit voyage isn't at all a cruise either.It is about understanding pitfalls of teens and education on how to interact with others as your equal and responsibility for your own actions (the ship does not cruise on its own)at least that is opinion of the Skipper and crew( the teens).That of course isn't suggesting your baggage to be so Steven.
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because my personal narrative reads like a book thats been retrieved from bilge water, for now I'l just say: when I was out in the sea, I wasn't "at risk" of being sent to boot camp.
If you were keel-hauled it would have been because you deserved it.
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Fuck Steve, that is SO much more exciting than my youthful sillinesses)
e.g.driving my mother's mark6 Zephyr to score my first ton, skewing it into the Marine Parade sandhills (just missing two of the old-girl pine-trees)
getting it out, brushing off the caked sand, getting back home, hoping none of my 5 siblings had heard anytheeeeng-I already had the sea as helper-
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Great story Steven. Re. the Rose Noelle, which if I recall correctly flipped over about the same time as Tienanmen Square happened: Two of the crew, who were friends before the voyage, told their story in the Listener. It didn't show the skipper in a good light. The poor guy was on the bones of his bum, living in the garage of an Auckland journalist who believed his eventual book would be a goer.
Seems her instincts were geared to a less sceptical age, when his tale could have been hyped as one of a plucky survivor. As it happens, he's remembered as an inept seaman who wasn't up to the resonsibility of skippering a seagoing yacht.
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Fascinating stuff Steven. It confirms my feeling from back then that John Glennie got dealt a raw hand by fate. Didn't one of the two friends who told their story die of cancer or some such not long after?
Best anecdote I remember - when the taxi driver on Great Barrier radioed the island's sole policeman with the news that they'd been flagged down by "wrecked yachties", he packed his long baton, assuming that "wrecked" meant drunken yachties cutting up wild.
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Knowing a tiny wee bit about the Barrier (one important part of my whanau lived there for nearly 3 years) I'd say the copper's call was a goodie-
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Thanks Steven. I'm going away from my computer for a few days but hope to read more Sea Tales when I return.
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