Best anecdote I remember – when the taxi driver on Great…

because my personal narrative reads like a book thats been retrieved from bilge water, for now I'l just say: when I was out in the sea, I wasn't "at risk" of being sent to boot camp.

If you were keel-hauled it would have been because you deserved it.

Hmmm. Two men enter, one man leaves. Sounds familiar?

Better still, the finest men in America don't run for President. They run for their lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ceegnWSENQ

Kyle your comments are contradictory. Either the prisons follow best practise, such as the basic site selection and geology reports or they don't.

Best practice in prison design which means the layout and structure of the buildings, not what's underneath them. I'm not sure why they decided to build there,…

Hah, with Crusher Colins on board you can do both. Stick 'em in a container and send 'em round the world. When it comes back, hose it out, put in a brand new prisoner and ship it off again. Cheap as Chips.

You've just reminded me of an episode of…

Ngāwhā Prison anyone?

Well that's not building prisons, that's building anything. Prisons are no more resistant to geology than other structures.

Steven, I'm intrigued. How did the sea cure you?

The salt. It's a wonderful preservative.

Badoom-tsh.

Ngāwhā Prison anyone?

Northland geologist Roger Brand says four years ago he warned the department that the site would be unstable and it could take years for the peat sub-soils to drain and settle. Brand predicts more cracks will appear in the prison walls.

And they put it on top…

So the troublesome youth of today – send them around Cape Horn and straight ahead around the Southern Ocean, by the time they're back in NZ the miracle of correction has happened?

Hell yes, it makes more sense than sticking them in shipping containers

Hah, with Crusher Colins on board…

Ngāwhā Prison anyone?

Northland geologist Roger Brand says four years ago he warned the department that the site would be unstable and it could take years for the peat…

Oh dear. So we're not allowed to discuss it unless we're architects or cost analysts with experience of building prisons? Cheap shot.

What Sam F said.

Danny was fired up about the container idea, demanding to know how a container-based cell could cost even $380,000,…

Was it as clever sounding as it looks in print?

I'll let you decide.

Next time, I think the title will be #1 Crusher

Can I just say when I first saw the title of this thread, my initial reaction was – there's one here. When my stepson has gone, of course.

You're boundlessly generous and thoughtful, Jackie. The title is in fact a quotation of Minister Collins on Morning Report.

Not all whale oil was clean burning. Some of it stank.

Now I'm confused. Shouldn't this be in the Garrett/Oil rig thread?

they tend to spend a lot of that time thinking up ways to turn their immediate surroundings into weapons.

Hence, underfloor heating.

the night life in Paris, New York, Amsterdam and London was powered by whale oil lighting.

Wow, you mean that Whale Oil was once actually useful for something?

... prisoners onto trains.
But they closed the Gisborne line years ago, and there's no prisoners on the West Coast, so they couldn't be sent east.

This line clearly going nowhere, but for the record the Gisborne railway line is no more closed than the north-bound lanes of the Auckland…

Oh dear. So we're not allowed to discuss it unless we're architects or cost analysts with experience of building prisons? Cheap shot.

That doesn't look like what Kyle was saying to me.

I think everyone is perfectly entitled to discuss the issue and propose better solutions, but I also think…

There are people in Corrections who are employed to design and build prisons following international best practice. They've spent quite a bit of time learning to be good at it, and our recently built prisons rate quite well.

How anyone with access to The Herald's 'your views' pages can be…

I still predict this government will be remembered not for what it did, but for what it failed to do.

and for what it un-did.

But shipping containers are terrifically strong...

For their intended purpose, yeah. But their intended purpose is sitting on a boat, packed full of items that aren't actively trying to cut their way out, break bits off for use as shivs, etc. So while they can take quite a lot of…

Wonder if there would be consultation on WHERE a big number of container /cells would be put?

Well there is always the contaminated land down by the tank farm. Pitbull Collins has made it obvious that she thinks inmates scum so a bit of contamination wont matter surely.
I dont…

I'm not seeing poky little rabbit cages here and the idea of having smaller compounds seems more humane to me.

It might be humane. It'll double the cost of housing the prisoners however.

If you have a 'shed' with cells on either side of a communal area, you can house…

Smaller compounds would mean being able to…

you can't just add heating or lights or anything like you can in a normal house

You say that like it's a bad thing?

Heh. Seriously, good points.

whole lotta container dwellings

Some interesting links on container architecture FYI

I see seriously bad sociological problems in using shipping containers as prison cells. Shipping containers are loaded with symbolic meaning.

I agree – reminiscent of the 'ship of fools'.

__'Michel Foucault, in "Madness and Civilization", claimed that "ships of fools" were used as primitive concentration camps, to dispose of people…

Every chronic disease death postponed means, on average, an extra 10-15 years of life – with consequent economic advantages to the country.

One would presume the "extra" 10-15 years would be at the end of ones life, you know, when your getting…

Assuming that the figure quoted was credible, it wouldn't surprise me if making things secure, fireproof, and safe for a lone correction officer is what bumps up the cost.

Yeah, could be.

$150,000 kitset might not be the most durable solution and insurance could be an issue.

Heh, I didn't say that kitset home was flash or anything. And a container is a darn sight cheaper to begin with and already made of very secure material. That $360 seems very a very…

"Consultation" nudge nudge

My Research and Consultation offer is in the mail to Crusher as we speak :-)

Shipping containers are loaded with symbolic meaning. Just imagine if some clever dick politician, one-day decides to load all these prison containers, ant there prisoners onto trains.

But they closed the Gisborne line years ago, and there's no prisoners on the West Coast, so they couldn't be sent east.

How can they be that expensive? I can buy an 80 square metre kitset home & have it built, plumbed & powered, whiteware included for less than $150k.

Imagine you were to rent to a 130 kg tenant who suffers from ADHD, pyromania and has anger management issues that is confined to…

How can they be that expensive?/quote>Search me. It may have something to do with those people that do the costings for govt. departments.
Cost of container. $2,500
fitout (labour & materials) $3,500
Land cost $60,000
Use of desk $10,000
Use of Govt. pen $30,000
Staples $40,000
Paper $4,000
Resource Consent $30,000…

I can buy an 80 square metre kitset home & have it built, plumbed & powered, whiteware included for less than $150k.

Yes, and I could bust out of it any time I liked by shouldering the door. Assuming that the figure quoted was credible, it wouldn't surprise me if making things…

With the closure of the American Penal Colonies many of Privately owned ships were used as prisons. Then eventually those that could sail went to the Australia penal colonies.

If it is merely a question of finding a suitable site for a penal colony then perhaps we could make some…

My lawyer with be instructed to come up with another idea in due corse.

That sounds very itchy, has he not heard of cotton?

See, I said they were expensive. It would be cheaper to build them three bedroom houses in Manurewa

How can they be that expensive? I can buy an 80 square metre kitset home & have it built, plumbed & powered, whiteware included for less than $150k.

If you want to build modular prison cells, do a decent job and design it properly and build it from raw materials

This might actually help a boost to a few NZ businesses with good modular housing ideas, and even give prisoners a chance to develop and use construction skills…

According to Nat Radio this a.m. they'd all have windows, toilets, and be insulated, proper floors etc.

And underfloor heating & plasma TVs etc etc

THAT I have a problem with.

Yes that my point. New Zealand prisons have symbolic meaning, that is entirely different to industrial equipment, such as trains ships and storage yards.

To me, typical NZ prisons (as opposed to Olde Worlde Mt Eden style), with their scattering of low-rise sheds surrounded by fences, have a lot in…

With the closure of the American Penal Colonies many of Privately owned ships were used as prisons. Then eventually those that could sail went to the Australia penal colonies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ships…

That's right – think of the nutrient potential if we converted these living organisms into fertiliser for our crops.

Isn't that the ultimate in giving back to society?

Do you mean use them as slaves?:)

You may very well think that, Steven, i couldn't possibly comment :-)

Containers are not cheap[ and we need them to import the goods we need to spend our way out of the economic downturn.

I've heard that containers are unusually cheap in NZ, for the rather sad reason that we import more containerised goods than we export, so it's not economic…

I've seen studio apartments made from containers, such as at Container Wharf in East London, and they can actually be wonderful places to live. The problem with this proposal is not that it would be cruel, but that to bring them up to…

Would be an interesting site (sight) when there are maybe 500 or 1,000 containers placed umm just over there

in the ocean, on stilts like giant birdhouses! Cook Strait should be rough enough to discourage escape. Alcatraz on stilts.

Finally I understand why the police let us onto the harbour bridge.

And here I thought the police knew it was bikes
that were the problem or at least the crims mode of transport.

new telecom ad with Lucy Lawless

You mean Zoe Bell?

I mean, it's quite clear from that new telecom ad with Lucy Lawless that these things are as easy as pie to escape from, even when they're drifting in the middle of the ocean.

We should be keeping these scum off our streets. And seas. Not leaving them…

Let's combine those ideas Scott.

No, on reflection, I think both our ideas are too costly.

We should be making money from these people. My motto is always act as the Romans would.

We've now got a great big new public space on the Auckland waterfront. Send them there. Put…

I think containers are too costly. Can't we put the prisoners on a boat and set them adrift? Let God…