Island Life: Are you old enough?
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16 year olds voting I don't mind. Governments controlling the education of the majority of them at the time, I do.
David Bain retrial - you missed the important part. Nine months of Dunedin police having their reputation dragged through the mud by FoB (friends of Bain). All the gummint's fault, of course.
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You forgot the 5 minute news/advertorial segment on the iPhone in July, despite the fact we won't be getting it in NZ till 200X.
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Universal sufferage at 16 - is that the ultimate for Sue?
Quite like Sue but not sure kids should have the responsibilities of adults - like being held in prison etc and therefore not have all the rights (OK it happens now but shouldn't).
I like the argument of the young labour rep who said intellegence isn't used as a measure by which anyother group is allowed to vote - so shouldn't apply to kids.
A good mate who joined the Terries with me (as a diversion from prison) was 17 and to this day (married/mid 30's/ 2 kids) is known as Junior.
Didn't Tim Barnett want the legal age for prostitution to be 16? hmm.
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Don’t they have a system in Europe where people can get tried in another country in such high-profile cases??
A retrial of Bain in Australia would seem the obvious thing to do.
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I'm slightly surprised they're retrying the case. No disagreement that they should, in theory... but I understood that Bain would have been eligible for parole next year anyway, and given he's been a model prisoner, I've assumed he would have been paroled. I very much doubt he's likely to kill again.
I wonder, if he's convicted, what the sentence is likely to be - presumably they'll take what he's already served into account.
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Forget being able to pay taxes or marry (but only with your parents permission) at 16 ... if you're not considered responsible enough to drink alcohol until you're 18, then why should you be considered responsible enough to vote when you're 16?
And if you lower the voting age to 16 then how do you argue that they're still not responsible enough to drink at 16? You can't. So you'll have to lower the drinking age.
And the arguments will go on forever. Why can't under 18's sign their own legally binding contracts? If you give a 16 year old the right to vote then they should also have the right to sign up with Acme Personal Finance for a lifetime loan for that hot new WRX Turbo they've been coveting.
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I know I shouldn't have been allowed to vote at 18 ...
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You’d assume the previous sentence would be taken into account.
He’s done 75% of his sentence for a crime he was probably 75% guilty of. Why don’t they just call it quits, and spare us the sight and sound of Joe Karam every day for the next 2 years?
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I lol'd.
And it's all so true, in that special satirical meaning of the word.
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Why don’t they just call it quits, and spare us the sight and sound of Joe Karam every day for the next 2 years?
The pragmatist in me agrees, but it seems more important to me that we don't undermine the rule of law by taking shortcuts that might undermine the system. Justice, seen to be done, and done by following well-developed principles is the best assurance we all have that order is maintained, and that innocent people have every opportunity to defend themselves. (Recognising, of course that it can be done imperfectly, for which there are remedies, and why we are now at the point we are.)
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No-ones arguing about civics which may be the true thrust of what Sue is trying to bring in.
Voting at 16 is a little of a blindside and a non issue.
I think The Offspring said it best in "Come out and play"
You’re under eighteen you won’t be doin’ any time
Hey! Come out and play!That is very much the way I thought until 25yrs old.
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Universal sufferage at 16 - is that the ultimate for Sue?
You've reminded me of this amusing exercise, which I've added to the post.
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democracy blogger Idiot Savant to get dedicated funding from vote:education
What, not vote:parliamentary services?
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And if you lower the voting age to 16 then how do you argue that they're still not responsible enough to drink at 16? You can't. So you'll have to lower the drinking age.
And the arguments will go on forever.
Those disparities exist now, so presumably you support dropping all ages limitations to zero as that is the only possible end result of lowering (having?) any age restrictions? I mean, why not just get it out of the way now and save all the arguing?
The arguments will go on forever - because there are no absolutely correct answers to them - doesn't mean they're not worth having though.
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Okay, well just answer the first part then:
if you lower the voting age to 16 then how do you argue that they're still not responsible enough to drink at 16? -
I was considered responsible enough to count votes at 17, but could not cast one.
Worse than a young voter would be a young voter that has been drinking.
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Why not follow from our largely Judeo-Christian traditions and institute suffrage at 13 as in the Bar Mitzvah?
I did most of the really wrong stuff I got up to at 14/15yrs.
And was buying my own booze (& my mates) at 15yrs even with the law stated it should be 20yrs.
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What, not vote:parliamentary services?
Who do you think will fight harder to keep their bone: teachers or pollies?
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Linking the age of responsibility for helping elect a government and the age of responsibilty for buying alcohol is not a great idea. Drinking and voting are not the same thing, generally speaking. The issues involved in the two responsibilities are different.
Maybe we should treat them on their own merits?
And I/O, if your question is a good one, maybe you can give an answer to the question of why we shouldn't lower the voting age to 16 or whatever in order to recreate the relativity between the old drinking and voting ages.
Why is it the current ages that you think should be set in stone?
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Worse than a young voter would be a young voter that has been drinking.
Well there's a compromise I can live with! Lower the voting age and the drinking age to 16. But since we only get to vote once every 3 years they can only drink once every 3 years too.
It would make Election Day much more interesting. I can imagine the Sunday morning headlines: "Drunken Teens Vote 17 y.o. Boy Racer Into Parliament!" (I was going to say 'Pot Smoking Rasta' but ...)BTW - young people don't actually vote in significant numbers anyway, so lowering it to 16 won't change much.
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Agree, and from talking with teens, which I do regularly and often, that is still happening. Surprise !
My Vote! rally in Queen Street: 3,000 high school students in Aotea Square and another 14,000 inside the CD stores and Burger King.
LOL'd too, thanks you made my day, even after seeing Breakfast's coverage this morning's showing one teen saying 'legalise weed.' I predict not huge numbers of 16 year olds would vote, but the Greens and ALCP might definately pick up a couple of points.No-ones arguing about civics .
All the time, aren't we, or should I check the dictionary ? In terms of responsibility, giving them the vote at 16 hands them their stake, and that could only be a good thing. -
I did most of the really wrong stuff I got up to at 14/15yrs.
was what I was agreeing with. -
Why is it the current ages that you think should be set in stone?
Why 16 and not 17? or 15?
I'm sorry, but when I think of a 16 y.o. voting I can't help but think of this guy
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Sueffrage
Yes. I like that word.
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Ah, fair argument.
Course, when I think of 83 year olds voting I can't help but think of this guy.
Not sure that I support disenfranchising them all on the basis of a cartoon character though.
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