Island Life: Anyone can do design.
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annul a lucid cock
Hey, that might have been a hand job, but it is only an a away from the cheat sheet one of mine... Whoops, that might be considered a bit rude.
uckland. It's only an A away.
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It's only an A away.
Auckland - A way with the ferries
aaah but does a manual vowel movement
trump a machine going thru the motions?
:- )but I liked many of your ones...
why didn't I think to put a caulk in it? -
But why stop at singing or cooking or graphic design? Why not let everyone have a crack at being an architect? Or an engineer? Or a neurosurgeon.
Or even a Dirty Harry? Live snuff on demand.
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Pendant. 22 actually if you count the contained space within the letters.
My point is that while you or I might be happy to let our web browser calculate the letter spacing automatically, when it comes to logo design, one of the things a professional designer does is manually adjust the letter spacing so it looks just right.
It's the sort of thing that, when it's done right, we probably wouldn't even notice; only standing out if it looked aw fu l.
That is one of the things that professional designers do.
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but if the city decides it does, then a good designer will simply say "okay, so what are the requirements...
That's not quite my point. By one definition of a logo I do believe we need a city logo ... specifically City Council in a standard font/colour, typed on things the council does.
You do NOT need a designer for that. And most folks don't give a rats arse if it isn't perfect.
In essence what I'm saying is cheap is just fine in this instance because frankly I don't believe it matters much.
One thing that NZers often take pride in is our creative community and how both art and design is well developed across a broad spectrum of amateur and professional forms.
Absolutely! I love good design. I think there are things that can benefit from design and for which it is worthwhile spending our creative juices eg a waterfront recreation area.
I also think there are things that designers have created a niche for which there is no real benefit to society eg logos in general and government department logos in particular. Fine to play at making a logo for fun but to pay real money for it???
James
This anti-artistry has tinges of the anti-intellectual movement to it. "What do the experts know? Bah, I could do that!"
Are you suggesting a council logo is art? I think you are creating a straw man here. Most of the posters here have a very strong appreciation of art (much stronger than my own). The point is a friggen council logo does not need to be art, if it has any purpose it is to identify things the council does and simple words do that just fine.
But why stop at singing or cooking or graphic design? Why not let everyone have a crack at being an architect? Or an engineer? Or a neurosurgeon.
I just want a) my rates spent more effectively (IMO) and b) our designers using their creative skills on something that matters. It is because I value the designers we have in NZ that I want them using their powers for good not evil.
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Why not let everyone have a crack at being an architect? Or an engineer?
Don't be silly, that sort of thing is best left to Professionals.
That is one of the things that professional designers do.
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This is not about "art" and nor is it mainly about branding local buildings or publications. It is a design exercise to support one of our largest organisations to engage on the world stage against other city/regions. Those won't be relying on feelgood amateur guesswork for their branding.
a good designer will simply say "okay, so what are the requirements... what must the logo attempt to do, for whom and to whom?" Perhaps that's the area best left for public engagement: developing the brief.
Already done over quite some time for the Brand Auckland exercise - recommend reading their small site.
Imagine say the blue version of their logo with the word "Council" added beneath. Maybe I could submit that..
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aaah but does a manual vowel movement
trump a machine going thru the motions?Why did this make me think of the poo ponds?
Auckland. You can smell us a mile away.
Anypoo. On spaces.
In designer higher learning
you get a yearning for some kerning
while undergrads are trad
their typography's just bad -
... our designers using their creative skills on something that matters. It is because I value the designers we have in NZ that I want them using their powers for good not evil.
I'm sure all NZ designers are touched by your looking out for what's best for them.
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It is a design exercise to support one of our largest organisations to engage on the world stage against other city/regions.
Please tell me your joking Sacha.
to engage on the world stage against other city/regions. FFS. It's a local Council, not a football team. What are we talking about here? Competitive Counciling? If you're talking about tourism, then fair enough but I, and I guess we, want a functional City that looks to its people, not to some international best practice think tank, to tell them what we want. And if I hear the term "Commercial Sensitivity" mentioned in connection with "Our" City Council I will scream. I shall also scream if I hear the term "World Class City" too. It means nothing, it is mere opinion as to what "World Class" even means. It is all Gobbledygook to make the people think that they are too insignificant to have any say in their own City. It is the likes of John Banks and his business cronies who want our City to be a "Success" to make money. It is getting rid of "Non-Core" services like Housing for the elderly and the poor and building theatres for the Middle Classes subsidising "Popular" musicals for the tasteless.
If local Government is too complicated and too big for the people to understand then it should be made smaller and more simple, not turned into a Multinational corporation.
AND... BRANDING!!!!
The only thing that needs Branding is Rodney's Hide. -
Steve, its so easy to be negative, cynical, sarcastic and carp against everything isn't it?. "City of Fails?" Ok, whatever dude. The jaundiced idealogy of the resentful few regarding those in some kind of position of power... frankly, when displayed as you have done is just ugly. As I say, its easy just to bay and whinge, rather than stand FOR something.
Sacha had an opinion and offered it, and thats fair enough. I agree that we want a city to be diverse and all that, but who are you to decide what is "tasteless"?
It has been a fundamental element in all of human society to have symbols that represent them... even if they were just banners to die under in the wars of more powerful men. A symbol for a new city is not necessarily a bad thing, its just not been well defined yet exactly how it'd be used. Actually its one of our most common themes... our continued search for self-expressed identity. -
Hey, Michael and Steve (oh Sacha too I guess). How are Alien and I going to continue our flippant witticisms if you're going to start taking this seriously?
The council putting the Logo out to a public competition with a prize of 10,000 is a joke. But, leaving Graphic Design to lay people is not, and trust me on this, the same as leaving brain surgery to a plumber.
There are bigger issues at stake around Auckland's identity, and the stakeholders, vested interest, conflict of interest, Maori, Pacific Island, new immigrant cultures, students, environment, water, ports, RWC, electricity, sewerage blah blah blah. No Logo is going to sufficiently encompass the diversity of the city, or solve all it's problems, so leaving it to 'the people' to identify symbols that are meaningful to them might not be a bad way to start the process.
Qualified people will no doubt take the ideas and run them through the wringer before deciding on the final design. What's the big deal? It starts to sound like 'get the hell off my patch!'
There are also 'lay people' out there that happen to be artists, or have GDip Bus in Marketing, including Advanced Communications, spent years working in galleries and photography, have used Photoshop and other Graphics tools for more than 15 years, and if it wasn't for that thing called 'a day job' could probably do a creditable job of it. Kerning not withstanding.
Lighten up. We're in Auckland. It's kind of fun here, right?
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But, leaving Graphic Design to lay people is not, and trust me on this, the same as leaving brain surgery to a plumber.
No, it's not the exactly the same. I'll give you that. I'd still prefer my rates to be spent on the services of a professional designer, not on a New Zealand's Next Top Graphic Designer competition. Although that would be kinda fun to watch on tv.
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Please tell me your joking Sacha.
to engage on the world stage against other city/regionsSteve, it's just how economic development is going now. Attracting good businesses, entrepreneurs, investors and skilled workers is increasingly competitive at a city/region level with marketing strategies to match. Used to be countries. Not my decision, and I'd rather be agreeing wholeheartedly over a beer or better.
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might not be a bad way to start the process.
already done
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I agree the logo design job would be best done by a specialist, but in my experience it’s not uncommon for “design competitions” to be run for logo development projects (companies sometimes invite staff to participate in similar kinds of competitions, and then use that input to help brief a professional design company who may or may not build on those concepts). It’s hardly life-threatening surely.
In my view we’re running the risk making a big deal about something that would have been far better dealt with by DINZ face to face with the Auckland Transition Agency. My personal feeling is that DINZ is beginning to look rather petulant and our design industry somewhat insecure and lacking in self belief and confidence.
Is it such a bad thing to ask stakeholders with or without formal design training to have a go? Do we really think this will undermine the value of high quality professional design work? Are designers the final arbiters of everything creative? I don’t think so.
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auckland...wheres it at ?
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5162/freakina.jpg
it ain't the capital eh :)
comic sans FTW !!!
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Love it, Robbie. Along similar lines, I was hoping for something that says "Bucklame" when you read it with a squint.
I have to say, I will never look at Auckland again without remembering (ta, resident word-botchers) that it's an anagram for Anal Duck. Which means it's time for a name change for the whole darn city. Who was this Auckland feller anyway, aside from thrice First Lord of the Admiralty and... Governor-General of India between 1836 and 1842?
Since even Tamaki-makaurau seems of uncertain origin, why not start from scratch? Perfect opportunity.
Or could we at least fix the spelling so visitors would pronounce it properly: Awkland?
(I do miss the brief reign of understated awesome that was "Auckland, eh" -- sorry, "Auckland, A!" Mainly because I always put a silent "fckin" in the middle.)
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Awkland?
or perhaps something that captures the glitz and glamour of our largest city, while capitalising on all that Govt funded international filmic publicity...
ladies and gentlemen I present...
<drumroll> Orcwood </drumroll>
(Middle Earth meets Hollywood...
as I think Hollyland may be too close to some other place...)or if we update the premise
PandorA
(the city formerly known as Auckland)
...it's one out of the box!hell you've already got a sky city! :- )
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That great big hypodermic just screams for Intravenous Agnostic
With no tree on the hill
and volcanoes off the bill
it's the only symbol left
so stick it in the...What rhymes with left? There is something, but if I use that it will be berry wude!
I'm done, honest!!!
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sinister thread warp...
What rhymes with left?
so weave it in the... weft?
heft, cleft, deft, bereft...
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heft, cleft, deft, bereft...
I'm on the hoof.
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Rik,
My personal feeling is that DINZ is beginning to look rather petulant and our design industry somewhat insecure and lacking in self belief and confidence.
Is it such a bad thing to ask stakeholders with or without formal design training to have a go? Do we really think this will undermine the value of high quality professional design work? Are designers the final arbiters of everything creative? I don’t think so.
Ahhh....the voice of reason!
Nicely put John.
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Ahhh....the voice of reason!
Having said something similar, I concur. I'm not being petulant I hope, just anachronistic.
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Prodesign has a comprehensive piece, with links aplenty.
The designers I’ve spoken to after a quick ring around seem more bemused than incensed about the competition (actually, since then a few do seem to be a bit incensed, and some incensed in the opposite direction, and there’s a bit of conversation going on over here)
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