Hard News: We'll find out where all the parties are
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disclaimer: i'm not a parent
my parents never smacked me, and look how i turned out
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From NZPA, 9 Oct 2006
Wellington, Oct 9 - A man critically injured when a car was driven into a crowd in the Auckland suburb of Pakuranga yesterday morning has died in Middlemore Hospital.
He was Kane Wright, 19.
Melissa Viall, 23, an early childhood teaching student, was killed when she went to the aid of her friend, one of three men hit by a car after a 21st birthday celebration in Pakuranga.
As she was trying to help her friend, the car turned and drove back, hitting her. She had died from head injuries by the time police arrived.
A man has been charged with her murder.
Two others, aged 31 and 27, were also injured.
Pakuranga, not Papatoetoe. From memory the driver claimed his brother was being beaten up at the time and he was trying to stop it.
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There were about 200 kids at a house across from ours in Burwood on Sat. night... the usual carousing and carrying-on, with kids flowing into the street. Concerned for their safety, I did let the police know about it, but I felt a bit of a berk afterward when I found out what was going on at Edgeware Road. Still, as I said to the missus, it's difficult to know when a party like that might cross over the line, from being a relatively innocuous one, to something tragic, as occurred only a few kms away.
The van that the driver collided with after running into the kids is still parked sideways on Westminster St. I've seen it the past two mornings driving my kid to school.
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I don't see how your conclusions follow from the premises.
Which is why I've decided our nations future lies in me launching a coup detat. Unlike others here on PA I'm sick of having to explain myself with reasoned argument, so I'm just going to install myself as dictator and you'll all be better off just doing what I say. I have your best interest at heart.
But seriously: I agree that the instances of autocide are few and far between but I don't think that's the issue. And I don't think dissecting it into discussions about rural/non-rural youth (or ChCh youth) is helpful either. The change is happening slowly which is why it goes unnoticed (and why incidents like this shock us awake, briefly) but are we (society) not going to hell in a handbasket (albeit slowly)? A 100 years from now will we be living in a world like Mad Max III crossed with Escape From New York??
Hey, even I know that's sound ridiculous -- but I still kinda can't help wondering where this all leads. Who would have thought 21 years ago that Madonna's 'outrageous' wearing of underwear as outer wear would have led to today's bump-n-grind afterschool music vids? (Cue responses invoking "Elvis" "Teddy Boys" and "WTF?")
I shall now have a lie-down, before I get an attack of the vapours ...
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The New York Times has a somewhat bizarre story about a philosophical split in the conservative movement over evolution,
Conservatives arguing over how Conservative political thought might/should be affected by evolution strikes me as a real recognition that evolution could have consequences outside the lab and classroom.
In some senses Conservative hostility towards evolution suggests a more profound understanding of its potential political implications. Liberals tend to go "evolution true, no problem, no real consequences" where as Conservatives think that there could very well be consequences. The NYT's article concludes with -
As for Mr. Derbyshire, he would not say whether he thought evolutionary theory was good or bad for conservatism; the only thing that mattered was whether it was true. And, he said, if that turns out to be “bad for conservatives, then so much the worse for conservatism.”
Apart from rare instances such as with Peter Singer there's not a lot of Liberal thinkers putting Liberal views on the line against evolution.
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The occurence of fighting at parties is by no means new. I loved the report I read of the battle between Town and Gown in Oxford circa 1500 when people were actually killed.
What we have had here could have happened in any NZ town, I feel. The way we teach our kids to drink and party will end up this way at some stage. We can dress it up as inappropriate anger response but it comes down to an acceptance of violence that when mixed with alcohol leads to violent action.
I can remember, as a university student, working in a grocery warehouse for the holidays when one of the guys was having troubles at home. His wife had just had a baby and PND was happening. Some of his workmates suggested that his wife needed a "good hiding'. White, middle class workmates in the 1980's.
It is all around us and won't go away with tinkering (much as I would love to ban cell-phones). The level of intervention that Ron Mark was talking about on the radio yesterday in relation to gang activities is the sort of thing that will be needed, but not just Marks' simplistic "string 'em up" ideas. Real programmes to change the lives of these kids, and possibly their parents, and show them that there is a better way. -
I "seem to remember" <early alzheimers! what does that mean?> the chch police chief saying on the radio last night that 85% of arrests in Chch have alcohol as a factor. Makes "p" seem like a wussy pre-school drug! (nb: I am not advocating, defending, nor indeed selling, p!)
Can you imagine a "dry" NZ? And how entwined with a drug can a culture get before things turn a little nasty?
I've never been a "good keen drinker" but enjoy a drink or three in the right circs. More, I like a lot of the laddish, round-the-barbie, down the bottle-store carry-on: its part of our national identity.
But I'm a bit scared of how keen kids are on getting plastered. Our daughter decided she didn't want a 15th birthday party 'cos we wouldn't serve alcohol- so none of her friends would really want to come. I supported lowering the drinking age, and now think it was a mistake. I buy all my beer at the supermarket, and I'm not sure that's such a good idea either. But the roots of that drink/culture embrace go a lot deeper. -
"A 100 years from now will we be living in a world like Mad Max III crossed with Escape From New York??"
With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken.
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Can you imagine a "dry" NZ?
I did spend a few years in Grey Lynn when it was "dry", but I doubt it'd be like that. More like the present gang 'problem', exponentially multiplied.
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Our daughter decided she didn't want a 15th birthday party 'cos we wouldn't serve alcohol- so none of her friends would really want to come
This issue is just heaving (hoving?) into view for us. Luckily for now, our 14 year old daughter (who is allowed all the freedom she earns with our trust) is as mystified as us (and fairly scathing about it) as to why a substantial number of her peers are already boasting of the parties they go to to "get pissed".
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Good call on Paul Henry, Russell, I agree.
When the "No Asians, no gangsters" comment was made, it was interesting to see that he picked up on the obvious meaning of "No Asians", but seemed to think that "no gangsters" meant the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, etc.
I think it may've actually meant Maori / Pacific Island street / youth gangs that model themselves on the Bloods and Crips, etc, rather than actual "gang" gangs, as such.I was flicking between Close Up and Campbell Live. It was interesting to see that the witnesses spoken to on Close Up were stereotypical "white trash bogans" while other witnesses spoken to (on other shows / media) went to some of the more posher schools in Chch.
To me, this shows the powering of texting and the range of socio-economic backgrounds it spread to on Sat night.
I loved chugging booze as much as anyone when I was a teen, but these days I can't help but think we're an appallingly immature country when it comes to drinking.
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With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken
He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.
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"He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?."
True, particularly if the script calls for some dance moves.
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With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken
He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.
Only if you equate vomiting with laughing. 'Tho his brief appearance on "Dancin mit der Tzars" was amusing, in a train-wreck kind've way.
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I bet he'd like the eyepatch though.
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I'll chip in, although my experiences are clearly the exception here: I'm twenty, and I moved down to Christchurch just over two years ago for uni. I've never felt threatened in the centre city, I've never been to a party that got out of control, all my binge drinking experiences (not the majority of my alcohol consumption by any means) have been strictly among small groups with no violence involved, and the closest thing I've seen to what's being described is a party over the road from my flat getting a bit noisy. And the only real trouble that threatened was my drunk flatmates' plan to charge up a huge capacitor they'd got from uni, toss it across the road, and see what happened when someone picked it up. (Luckily the police arrived and everyone dispersed, sans violence, before they could put that plan into action. Electrical engineers are scary people.)
Admittedly, I am a dull and boring person who tries to avoid going into the centre city to party at all costs, but when I've been there...I just feel like I must be living in a completely different city to the one being described. I don't think I've ever even seen a skinhead.
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Snap. My partner thought my laughter was cruel, and she was right.
all the freedom she earns with our trust
The problems arrive as the trust leaves, that's for sure.
But it's not entirely simple then, either. When the kids hit 16 you're conscious there's only a couple of years left that parental opinions/rules will have any material impact. And I'm conscious that in some ways what my parents didn't know was a biggish factor in their trust for me. And that teenagers need some space/privacy/secrets.
You have to rebuild trust in little blocks here and there sometimes. Trust in their good sense or self-preservation in a general way. And sometimes just cross your fingers and hope. -
There is hope for Michael yet. A new Snake is being sought as we speak.
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3410,
I was, on occasion, buying beer from the wholesaler and even pubs, from the age of 14. No-one (parents; school; publicans or wholesalers, friends' older brothers - no-one) *ever* gave me the slightest amount of information about alcohol use & abuse (and no internet, of course). It was learn-on-the-job until an almost fatal Tequila overdose at age 21 (thanks, Bob bar).
It seems NZ may finally be prepared to stop pretending that under-age drinking doesn't exist. What is the current state of school alcohol / drug education?
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The next arrogant SOB who refers to Christchurch as a hick or rural town is getting a be-atch slap from me. We have a population of quater of a million, thank you.
I have never felt in any danger in innercity Christchurch in the wee-small hours, mainly because I take the normal precautions any city-dweller takes, ie: using well-lit main streets and taxis where possible. Are Aucklander's really such whining pansies. There are parts of the Auckland CBD I wouldn't dream of setting foot in after dark.
I propose a television show for publically shaming the week's most obnoxious teens, in which they will have the piss taken out of them by Oscar Knightly.
The only reason P is so prevelant in this country is that coke is so hard to get.<irony>
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Conservatives arguing over how Conservative political thought might/should be affected by evolution strikes me as a real recognition that evolution could have consequences outside the lab and classroom.
Ah Neil, if only you were as generous to the Greens over genetic modification ...
But they're not debating how their philosophy should change: quite a few of them are saying "it challenges our philosophy, therefore we should refuse to believe it."
I'm put in mind of Stephen Colbert's observation that "reality has a known liberal bias."
I'm down with the final paragraph of that story:
As for Mr. Derbyshire, he would not say whether he thought evolutionary theory was good or bad for conservatism; the only thing that mattered was whether it was true. And, he said, if that turns out to be “bad for conservatives, then so much the worse for conservatism.”
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I have never felt in any danger in innercity Christchurch in the wee-small hours, mainly because I take the normal precautions any city-dweller takes, ie: using well-lit main streets and taxis where possible. Are Aucklander's really such whining pansies. There are parts of the Auckland CBD I wouldn't dream of setting foot in after dark.
Oh alright, sorry. But the Chch CBD does seem more out of hand to me than the Auckland one on a Saturday night. Nowhere else has had to resort to the one-way door policy, and the differences in the experience with party pills are extraordinary. It just seems different.
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With an ageless Michael Laws as Snake Plissken
He's more likely to be the comic relief sidekick don't you think?.
Exclusive plot spoilers
It is 2100. The100 years President (Michael Laws) is shot down in a passenger craft flying over the prison city of Wanganui on his way to broker a piece deal between warring gang factions (led by Tariana Turia & Helen Clark). A rescue mission is quickly assembled but after thinking about it for ten minutes, decide that finding him isn't worth the effort. Finishes with Snake having aperitifs with the mongrel mob members of Laws' cabinet.
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I have never felt in any danger in innercity Christchurch in the wee-small hours, mainly because I take the normal precautions any city-dweller takes
Yeah, me either, though I have to admit that I haven't spent much time there since I sprogged and went all suburban. But as a student in the early 90s I was told many times not to walk through Hagley Park at night.
So of course I did it. And the only people I ran into, two large trenchcoated suspicious-looking individuals, turned out to be good friends.
But I suspect when my kids (currently 12 and 10) cross that cusp and start partying here, they'll be inhabiting a very different city from the one I do, just as I lived in a different Timaru from the one my mother did.
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I propose a television show for publicly shaming the week's most obnoxious teens, in which they will have the piss taken out of them by Oscar Knightly.
Isn't this already being done - Studentville on C4 ?
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