Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Top of the Populism

118 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 Newer→ Last

  • Ian MacKay,

    And Stuart, how accountible is a privately run prison and would Judith Collins be seeking reassurance that all was well- publicly?

    Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    Stuart, there are various models - ranging from design/build/operate (i.e. a private company builds, owns, and runs a prison and is then contracted by the government to house prisoners) to the tendering out of catering services / cleaning etc. Key is mooting something in the middle - private companies managing (i.e. running, including guards) existing publicly built prisons.

    These management contracts will probably be put out to tender, with a list of service requirements attached to the tender document. The provider that provides a low price, (or a combination of low price and good quality assurance, depending on the tender model) will win the contract and start managing the prison. So that's how price is determined. The service standards will depend on what's in the contract, which will presumably be drafted by corrections. This could include rehabilitation and prisoner care standards, as well as things like security and maintenance. The problems here are threefold:

    1) Its really hard for anyone to monitor a goal as ephemeral as rehabilitation. How would you make sure they're genuinely following best, accepted practice in attempting to rehabilitate prisoners?

    2) As was mentioned above, citing NotPC, corrections has been pilloried as incompetent to manage prisons, yet the same people expect it to draft sensible contracts that ensure prisons are run properly and then monitor compliance properly.

    3) Even if we assume proper monitoring etc, it still looks very much like the government attempting to contract out of its own obligations (e.g. human rights, official information).

    Basically, privatising prisons is a lot more complicated, in principle and in practice, that privatising, say, an SOE.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    @Matthew - thanks. I did wonder how that would work. I'm guessing that the profit comes from saying it costs, say $50k (why does that number keep popping into my head? Was there an article sayingthat was how much it cost to house a prisoner for a year? Hmm) and then trying to do it for $40k. Or less. That sounds like... fun.

    @Ian. If the stories of riots are true then it would be difficult to get public reassurance.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    @Eddie. My thanks to you too. My curiosity is getting more and more satisfied.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Nothing, so long as you keep paying judges to put kids inside and keep the cells full. Perfectly sensible business model.

    Must be this one...
    Pa. judges accused of jailing kids for cash

    And I suspect I can detect a whiff of molotov cocktails from miles away before they've even been thrown.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Must be this one...
    Pa. judges accused of jailing kids for cash

    The answer in the House earlier when this was raised was that we are a loong way from Florida! Well' that's sorted then, wont happen here! Pennsylvania is also a long way from Florida.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    re the WSJ profile of John Key, you have to remember that the WSJ is really like two papers in one: the Op-Ed section and the news section are so completely different it's like reading two different publications. the news section tends to have quite well-written, informative and well researched articles (and analysis), whereas the Op-Ed section could be used for chip paper, maybe. really, try looking at a few days worth of print editions. the contast is amazing. and many of the views espoused in the opinion pieces are, ah, whacky. to say the least. y'know, like private prisons!

    speaking of whitch, i learnt all i need to know about private prisons from Nick Cave. in 1989.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    I'm guessing that the profit comes from saying it costs, say $50k (why does that number keep popping into my head? Was there an article sayingthat was how much it cost to house a prisoner for a year? Hmm) and then trying to do it for $40k. Or less. That sounds like... fun.

    And doesn't that just make your stomach turn a little, thinking of all the misery and death that goes on when prisons are badly and cheaply run as the cost of doing business? The profit margin?

    Which is, incidentally, what I really don't get: where on earth are private companies supposed to be cutting costs to turn a profit on prisons? If it costs X to house and feed a prisoner, how can they possibly do that more cheaply than the government, without abusing inmates or risking guards? How is it supposed to work, apart from waving the magic wand of privatisation?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Lucy: I wonder if corrections officers in a private prison will be unionised...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    And doesn't that just make your stomach turn a little, thinking of all the misery and death that goes on when prisons are badly and cheaply run as the cost of doing business?

    Well, yes, but I'm sure the SST and their acolytes won't mind because they're only prisoners! People who broke the law! The scourge of right and decent folks everywhere!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    I learned of the case of one Wackenhut facility where the company made its savings by packing prisoners in two to a cell while providing only half the number of guards. naturally, there were riots - so many, in fact, that the state government had to establish a special ready response squad just to clean up their mess. Which more than ate up the cost "savings" of privatisation...

    That would NEVER happen here, no Government would let them double bunk 2 prisoners in a 6.5m cell cause that would just...
    Oh wait

    But the most interesting thing about the profile is the contrast between John Key's posture in it, and the face he presents to the New Zealand public. He does seem to have a habit of telling everyone what they want to hear.

    Yes, apparently someone forgot to tell Bill English that we aren't running a fiscal stimulus:
    A significant fiscal stimulus is already under way, he says. "In fact the sharply rising debt shows just how much the Government is going to be borrowing to inject into the economy."
    By the Treasury's reckoning, the stimulus is the fifth largest, relative to the size of the economy, among developed ... Read morecountries. Over the two years to June 2010 the cumulative boost would amount to about 5 per cent of GDP.
    Most of that was set in train by the previous Government - a hefty increase in spending in the last Budget and the October tax cuts.
    But there are also National's tax cuts to come in April as well as accelerated infrastructure spending and the relief package, through Working for Families and the accommodation supplement, for people who lose their jobs.

    And Sam F - hilarious-if-it-wasn't-so-depressing huh. WACKENHUT? Is the new private ACC provider called Deniaclaim?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    And Sam F - hilarious-if-it-wasn't-so-depressing huh. WACKENHUT? Is the new private ACC provider called Deniaclaim?

    I feel quite bad about this nasty little gag now. As Alexander Pope once commented, "He who would make a pun would pick a pocket, and would then wind up in a prison run by underpaid vindictive employees of an uncaring security company."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    where on earth are private companies supposed to be cutting costs to turn a profit on prisons?

    Oh, we'll just turn to this guy for some inspiration. I reckon we could start with housing them in a tent city somewhere on the central plateau. Cheap, you see - we don't have to worry about buildings or anything like that. Just some old tents the army has no more use for, and a few barbed wire fences will do fine.

    Food you say? Weeeell, out-of-date or condemned old crap is probably all they need. I hear Fonterra has plenty of old contaimated milk it needs to get rid of. We'll start with that.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    The prisons don't get a choice as to who's sent there

    They do in the US, and its one of their other scams: dumping expensive or troublesome prisoners who might ruin their stats (and hence their bottom line) back into he public system. As with private hospitals, profitability comes from externalising costs...

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1717 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    In February 2007, Arpaio instituted an in-house radio station he calls KJOE. Arpaio's radio station broadcasts classical music, opera, Frank Sinatra hits, patriotic music and educational programming. It operates from the basement of the county jail for five days a week, four hours each day.

    But not, one notes, Barry Manilow

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    I'm guessing that the profit comes from saying it costs, say $50k (why does that number keep popping into my head? Was there an article sayingthat was how much it cost to house a prisoner for a year? Hmm) and then trying to do it for $40k. Or less. That sounds like... fun.

    Oh yes. Fun which includes:

    * skimping on "costs" such as rehabilitation, drug and alcohol treatment, healthcare, recreation and even food.
    * using untrained staff and paying them rock-bottom wages, creating an incentive for incompetence and corruption.
    * understaffing, with a consequent effect on safety.
    * dumping expensive or troublesome prisoners back into the public system.
    * externalising costs such as riot control back onto the public system.
    * and if that fails, overbilling and fraud.

    Wackenhut - sorry, "the Geo Group" (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) have been caught doing all of the above; it's just their normal business practice. Which makes the screwups at Corrections look good by comparison to everyone except a politician cruising for a "donation".

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1717 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    I'd like to see these places reinstated, and intentionally run at a financial loss, rather than the current plan that is to wait till addicts/alcoholics and otherwise ill people become prison inmates. Because using prisons as a convenient way of dealing with mental health problems in the community, is like credit card debt. It will compound and grow, ignoring it wont make it go away and sooner or later someone will want payback.

    Especially if you underfund drug and alcohol rehab in your prisons - which we've been doing for years because it's "soft".

    Around 80% of prison inmates apparently have drug and alcohol problems. More rehab places would do wonders to prevent reoffending. But we seem to be just too stupid - and too angry, vicious, and sadistic - to do it.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1717 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Did anyone else hear Stephen Franks on The Panel just now?

    His key point on Ian Rennie's report on the Corrections/Collins/Matthews debacle appeared to be that senior public servants should always be prepared to lose their jobs for the sake of political marketing. For a lawyer, Franks really doesn't seem to have much time for natural justice.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Drummond,

    Damn, a lot of people have chipped in on the private prisons thing: I guess my worries are shared by quite a few people. giovanni tiso, where might I find that "Business Behind Bars" doco?

    Yes, know I am indulging a bit of pleasurable Wishartism there) and it clearly did a deal with ACT to get their law and order nutjob David Garrett into parliament

    I'm also glad to see someone besides me has been engaging in paranoid line-drawing between a Three Strikes/Tough on Crime policy and private prisons. Well, I thought it was paranoia, but Tom Semmens' Wishartising has me worried that it's not.

    So does this. But of course, nothing like this could ever happen here.

    I guess the thought of private prisons doesn't so much fill me with worry as a deep sense of malaise. Perhaps it's an ideological reflex, but still. I smell 90's deja vu in the air.

    Since Nov 2006 • 119 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Parker,

    And in the second part of the show, Keith Ng the numbers king and Radio NZ education reporter Gael Woods discuss the alarming statistics on school violence that churned around the news media last week. Perceptive readers may have guessed that they are not all they seem.

    What pissed me off about the attack on the teacher last week were Key's and Tolley's responses on TV. Both were trying to sweep it under the table and neither mentioned or showed any sympathy for the teacher. Tolley was flippant I thought "Oh there's all these teachers and all these students, it's bound to happen sometime" or words to that effect. I can see a rough 3 years for us in the teaching profession.

    Napier • Since Nov 2008 • 232 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Josh D:

    So does this. But of course, nothing like this could ever happen here.

    I sure as fuck hope not. If it did, there'd be another 1981.

    I've said it before, but I'd be even more concerned about Los Angeles '92 coming to our shores. Most of the common ingredients are already there - global recession, higher-than-average unemployment & poverty at ground zero, yellow-vs-brown/black tensions, Pihema Cameron = Latasha Harlins. All it needs now is a good dose of state-sanctioned brutality and a Rodney King to trigger a meltdown. What would Judith do?

    And there's a difference between safety and comfort, Mr Garrett.
    Prisons to use double bunking

    ACT law and order spokesman David Garrett said criminals had lost their right to have their comfort considered.

    He said the prison population was growing and something had to be done.

    Mr Garrett referred to Dr Newbold's remarks about rapes increasing.

    "Rape is a crime wherever it occurs, and can be dealt with in the same way as any other offence committed in prison," he said.

    "The fact is if you don't want to be assaulted – or worse – by a cellmate, avoid prison by not committing a crime."

    Tony P:

    What pissed me off about the attack on the teacher last week were Key's and Tolley's responses on TV. Both were trying to sweep it under the table and neither mentioned or showed any sympathy for the teacher.

    If that was referring to the Korean student at Avondale Col, then would they send in the army if it happened at Tangaroa High?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    For a lawyer, Franks really doesn't seem to have much time for natural justice.

    Oh come on now RB, that's some outadate crazy individual rights-based paradigm your using there...

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    They do in the US, and its one of their other scams: dumping expensive or troublesome prisoners who might ruin their stats (and hence their bottom line) back into he public system.

    Change "prisoners" to "children"......

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    "Rape is a crime wherever it occurs, and can be dealt with in the same way as any other offence committed in prison," he said.

    "The fact is if you don't want to be assaulted – or worse – by a cellmate, avoid prison by not committing a crime."

    I think I'm going to throw up. Or cry. Or something. That's - Jesus fucking Christ. Don't ever commit crime, because you might get raped, which is just natural justice, because it's not like you should be *safe* in prison or anything. I don't even.

    And Stephen - no, I'd bet strongly against unionisation. Because then you have to pay people more for doing a dangerous and unpleasant job.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Lucy: it's clear that David Garrett is quite simply a nutjob, and his party is a sick joke. If we are to take him seriously, prison rape is a part of ACT's "Law and Order" policy.

    If anyone gets the opportunity to engage an ACT person in the near future, please ask them whether they're intending to leave their new policy of prison rape in the hands of prisoners. After all it could be outsourced to a private provider for profit.

    Can public execution and being burned in the hand be far behind?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.