Hard News: The standing-still sweep
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che, what exactly then do you think Iti was up to? He and his band of merry pranksters might appear comical enough but all you need is a few farm occupations to turn sour, a couple of deaths, the Harris family to decamp to Gisborne to get in on the action and we've a nice little sectarian conflict on our hands. (I do know a reasonable amount about the dynamics of New Caledonia in the 80s by the way).
Now tell me you wouldn't be just a bit concerned if Brian Tamaki was up to the same sort of thing?
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Yes, these are familiar narratives and anxieties, and I expect the events to be framed using them, with a dash of 'terrorism' thrown in.
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As an etymological aside I notice some people using the word 'hippie' as a derogatory term. Could someone please explain why this is so? I don't understand.
I'm going to go with Cartman from South Park as my source on this - perhaps its a generational thing?
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Now tell me you wouldn't be just a bit concerned if Brian Tamaki was up to the same sort of thing?
absolutely. brian is actually capable of organising things.
but neil, listen to yourself. tama iti.
mostly though i laughed at "armed sectarian conflict".
a few nutters, and the police/army sorting them out is not a "sectarian conflict".
you might want to put away the al qaeda and affiliates handbook for a bit there.
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The "armed training camps" fantasy is not restricted to the more, umm, excitable elements on the right.
I was assured by some hardcore Marxist flatmates of mine - this would have been in the late 80s - that there were armed Maori camps in Northland preparing themselves for The Revolution.
They believed it because they wanted to believe it, of course...
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I was assured by some hardcore Marxist flatmates of mine - this would have been in the late 80s - that there were armed Maori camps in Northland preparing themselves for The Revolution.
I was told by someone who was in a position to know that there were actually Maori nationalists stockpiling weapons in Auckland in the later Muldoon years. Shockingly enough, the houses where this went on were in Ponsonby. I daresay they've been done up quite nicely by now.
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a few nutters, and the police/army sorting them out is not a "sectarian conflict".
No it isn't and that is not what I said. Had the police not acted as they have that is what we might have got. Iti may be a fool but that does not mean that he couldn't be a catalyst for something pretty nasty.
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armed Maori camps in Northland preparing themselves for The Revolution.
the only armed camps up Northland way would be guarding their plantations....
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The Peace Movement by definition is pacifist.
And also by definition they want the state to be more pacifist in nature, making their success a common cause to every violent local or foriegn group who wants to disarm state security.
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Had the police not acted as they have that is what we might have got. Iti may be a fool but that does not mean that he couldn't be a catalyst for something pretty nasty.
that is a very, very long bow.
the first thing you'd need is the preconditions for an armed conflict. for example, an intractable civil conflict to feed it.
this doesn't exist.
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Back on the original topic...
Less than 24 hours after being elected, Banks is big-noting about "I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that"...
Just like last time?
And just like last time, he's going to shockingly discover that 1) he only has one vote and cant tell the whole council what to do... and 2) even if the council agrees with him its also subject to NZ laws, which prevents it doing some stuff...
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the only armed camps up Northland way would be guarding their plantations....
Do they still grow pot outdoors? Man, there were some good things about the old days ...
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Che, I think Neil's right, if you define 'armed sectarian conflict', or 'something pretty nasty' as one or more people being killed by an organised group. That is what the police are alleging was being planned.
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It appears that the offences so far being considered are:
Participation in a terrorist group
Unlawful possession of firearms
Unlawful possession of restricted weaponsAnd someone may have a semi-automatic.
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But of course, a healthy dose of skepticism needs to be applied to all of this until the facts are clear.
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RNZ News says two people in Auckland have been charged with possession of semi-automatic weapons and molotov cocktails.
Meanwhile, in a classic bit of Indymedia dissonance, an invitation to "support the arrestees" protests sits above an invitation to protest outside a weapons conference.
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the first thing you'd need is the preconditions for an armed conflict. for example, an intractable civil conflict to feed it.
Iti was providing one such precondition - arming and training people. Had the police not intervened we would have been that one step closer.
In the minds of some people like Iti there already is "an intractable civil conflict” - a perceived failure to make appropriate redress for colonisation. That was presumably their motivation.
I really am not trying to be mindlessly alarmist as you seem to be implying. Having an armed group with a racially based agenda is not something to be taken lightly. Things are difficult enough as they are regarding Treaty issues. Overlaying that with the dynamics of violent feuding would make things much much worse. And that's what's happen in similar circumstances in other parts of the world.
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It's all on at Whenua, Fenua, Enua, Vanua: Revolutionary Anti Colonialism & Anti Capitalism In The Pacific.
Oh, and some dude in the Indymedia comments reckons it's all a set-up by Dow Agrichemicals ...
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The thing is Neil, you do rather seem to have already made up your mind about the guilt of those arrested today. Innocent until proven guilty anyone?
Angus, I think we shall have to give up on our gloriously underwhelming bid to keep discussing the Auckland local body elections, this thread is well and truly away from that now! :-)
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Less than 24 hours after being elected, Banks is big-noting about "I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that"...
From the perspective of this Wellingtonian, Hubbard and Banks remind me of Scooby Doo and Scrappy Doo...
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From the perspective of this Wellingtonian, Hubbard and Banks remind me of Scooby Doo and Scrappy Doo...
LOL.
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Just got off the phone from Mark Jennings at TV3: it was the Sunrise cameraman arriving at work, seeing the police on their way to the raid, grabbing his camera and following them. That's why there was no reporting with the clip -- no reporter!
They made the call to just upload the clip as it was, as soon as they could.
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Just got off the phone from Mark Jennings at TV3: it was the Sunrise cameraman arriving at work, seeing the police on their way to the raid, grabbing his camera and following them. That's why there was no reporting with the clip -- no reporter!
And quite a happy outcome for the Police - who must be gagging for any publicity that doesn't involve a tasered corpse or high profile court cases arising from what Michael Laws repulsively calls 'sensual excesses'.
Anyway, let's hope the Police have some steak under the sizzle because cases involving alleged 'terrorist' have a nasty habit of falling apart faster than candy floss in a monsoon.
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Oh, and some dude in the Indymedia comments reckons it's all a set-up by Dow Agrichemicals ...
Isn't it always? I've got a pet theory regarding Dow complicity in the Second Punic War if anyone's interested,
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Anyway, let's hope the Police have some steak under the sizzle because cases involving alleged 'terrorist' have a nasty habit of falling apart faster than candy floss in a monsoon.
I followed some links from the blog I referenced above, and does seem that there are people who support the idea of armed resistance in theory. What emerges is another matter, but I'd probably like to know if my neighbour was stashing semi-automatics and molotovs.
OTOH, I can also imagine "molotov cocktails" meaning rags, bottles and petrol being found in the same general area.
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