Hard News: The song is not the same
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Try downloading part of a torrented file and using it, and tell me if it works.
depends if the file has been archived and split into partitions or not.
if not then the file is playable so long as the first section is there.
you can tell your program which part of the file to download first.If the torrent file is requesting something named FreeBSD-7.1-RELEASE.dvd1.iso but it's actually the latest Batman movie, how is ISP filtering going to pick that up?
sure, this is a good point but even I can think my way around that one.
at present the pirating scene, (yes there is a scene and they have sites and openly discuss rules and formats and files) demand their files in 700 meg, 1.4 gig, and what ever an hd or blueray file is. file sizes. so thats a good start point. look for those files sizes and who's transferring them.
the scene is pretty dumb and they do use actual film names at present, but they could dodge action by using fake names. but they've got to tell people about those fake names so you can find the torrents, so frequent the pirate sharing sites, write down the names and look for them. easy.
yes there are private sites, infitrate if needed , but the main thrust will mostlikely be to push it all underground. right now even your grand mother can download anything she wants, its that easy. making it covert and difficult will take the edge off it and access to isp uage is the gateway to that. forget DRM and the hissey fits over that. that's going to seem like a walk in the park once access to your usage is granted.The only way filtering can catch that is to assemble the entire file and then compare it to known hashes.
no it just needs the first bit. to check. you can even part un encode a partitioned file if you know what you're doing.
its not as mysterious and secret as we'd like to think.none of that will stop people taking hard drives to their friends loaded with files and sharing that way but with that you remove the anonymity factor to internet filesharing, and we're back to the good old days of home taping essentially.
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I have no problem with media owners attempting to direct their media to the people that paid for it only, others it seems do have a problem with it.
It seems you've gone 180 on this now Rob...that exactly is the point. I do not want people restricting what I do with the music I've bought, which may or may not include listening to it on an iPod, and a Zune (if I'm so damned as to own one) or having a physical copy in my house, car and office if I so want. DRM has done exactly that and if anything is a causal factor in piracy.
S'funny how unit sales are actually up in 2008, eh? I guess home taping is not killing music. Sure dollar value is down, but I guess that just makes it a bit harder to recoup those costs for anyone tied to a major label deal (which no-one in their right mind would do in 2008/9).
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Try downloading part of a torrented file and using it, and tell me if it works.
depends if the file has been archived and split into partitions or not.
uh, what? The whole point of BT is that files are pulled together from multiple sources, as a bunch of small chunks. Those chunks, individually, are worthless. Even if you have the very first x bytes of a file, you need much more than a single BT chunk to get a usable file. Most movie formats simply won't work if the file isn't complete.
I'm just going to drop this. You're not convincing me that you actually have the slightest clue how BT works, and certainly doing a very poor job of indicating that you've got the vaguest grasp on the enormous technical hurdles of establishing what's being downloaded in thousands of simultaneous torrents.
Of course, if you also support the disconnection-on-accusation rules in the Copyright Amendment Act then you don't give a damn if it can be proven what someone was downloading. Because, in that case, the supposition and appearance of infringement is quite sufficient to justify disconnection.
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Which means getting the entire destination file, completely, in order to compute the final hash
no it doesn't. my compter when I start up the program spits out the details of the things its looking for, it finds people sharing it and makes a connection. that's internet to pirate right there. It says the name of the file, it goes to the people who have it, who are obviously advertising they have it in computer speak and my computer negotiates to extract the info off them. its pretty simple and one you know how the program works then all you need to do is write an interface to deal with the data flowing freely around the net. I can't do that obviously cos i'm not a computer programmer but it wouldn't be hard for someone who is to do it.
Also, if a user only torrents part of a file and then cancels the download, have they actually downloading infringing material? What they've got is of no utility, and technically isn't a copy, only a partial one. What then?
that's a good question. I don't think they'll go for people downloading anyway. I think they'll go for people who allow others to download off them.
this is an issue with bit torrent cos it allows people to download the parts they need off a partial file. ie it doesn't have to a be a complete file, it just has to have the bit someone needs, so yes you could have people sharing partial garbage which doesn't become anything till the final bit is loaded, but obviously that information is available on the net too, otherwise how would my computer know where to go to find the bits it needs, it has to know who has what and where etc. just watch for the completed files to show up and pounce, and if those people remove their files as soon as they download then it makes it harder for others to grab the files. There's a constant plea for people to seed stuff so obviously sources are a problem to some extent, if they made it more difficult for people to be sources then the system starts to fall down and piracy becomes difficult. (speaking of movie files mostly here, music files are much quicker to transfer etc) -
if you also support the disconnection-on-accusation rules in the Copyright Amendment Act
did I say that, ever?
I'm outlining how I think it's going to go down, without taking sides on it. you seem to think you're invisible on the net. That's just so not the case. once people have access to the bottle neck of the internet, (the isp) you're fucked, simple as that. that's all I'm saying regarding this point, there are no costs issues, no technical issues that will be too difficult to over come, if they want to know what you're doing they'll figure it out. There will be exceptions to the rule, some clever technical people who can stay ahead of the game but for most people, once there is access to information at isp level its game over for that particular style of piracy, and probably many other types of privacy too.
No I don't think this is a good thing, just to be clear, but I see it as inevitable, and I would have much rather played along with drm been supportive of that rather than have some nosy prick look at what I'm up to on the net, but that's not where the game has gone now has it. I blame russell :) -
It seems you've gone 180 on this now Rob...that exactly is the point. I do not want people restricting what I do with the music I've bought,
jeez simon, I'm trying to work here and you keep distracting me. just cos you live in a tropical paradise doesn't mean we can all lie around spitting out posts on our laptop.
you know full well the point of DRM is to restrict unauthorised copying, ie they sell the music to you, not you and 50 of your friends. that's the concept behind it but itunes and zune and a bunch of other pie hungry fingers have complicated it beyond the simple task of one purchaser one owner. the intent is not to stop you enjoying it, its to stop people who haven't legally paid for it owning it.
That they have failed to create a system which implements this simple concept properly and that people like russell make a big stink about it in public instead of working toward a feasible and working solution is the reason we're all going to get our asses probed at isp level. There's no excuse for not seeing that one coming,
What did you think was going to happen, we all give our music away while getting jobs lecturing in radio at birmingham university to pay for it? -
It seems you've gone 180 on this now Rob...that exactly is the point. I do not want people restricting what I do with the music I've bought,
jeez simon, I'm trying to work here and you keep distracting me. just cos you live in a tropical paradise doesn't mean we can all lie around spitting out posts on our laptop.
you know full well the point of DRM is to restrict unauthorised copying, ie they sell the music to you, not you and 50 of your friends. that's the concept behind it but itunes and zune and a bunch of other pie hungry fingers have complicated it beyond the simple task of one purchaser one owner. the intent is not to stop you enjoying it, its to stop people who haven't legally paid for it owning it.
That they have failed to create a system which implements this simple concept properly and that people like russell make a big stink about it in public instead of working toward a feasible and working solution is the reason we're all going to get our asses probed at isp level. There's no excuse for not seeing that one coming,
What did you think was going to happen, we all give our music away while getting jobs lecturing in radio at birmingham university to pay for it? -
that you actually have the slightest clue how BT works
which is why we need an expert like you to lay it out in black and white for me. See my only experience with it is this friend of a friend who uses that software and its what he tells me happens.
apparently when downloading a movie file if the source file is a non partitioned archived file ie a straight avi it is playable as soon as the first part of the file is intact. if its a partitioned archived file then you have to download all the parts to un compress it.
my 'friend' knows this cos apparently he's downloaded a video once and dragged it onto his movie player and it played, just the first bit, and was garbage in the bits that weren't there. he did this mad thing cos he wanted to know if he was downloading a legit file or a bogus one.but anyway, back to you, you tell us all how we're invisible and untouchable and we'll go with what you say.
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I can't do that obviously cos i'm not a computer programmer but it wouldn't be hard for someone who is to do it.
Yes.
it.
would.As you are not a programmer, you're just going to have to take the words of those of us who are. What you can do with your little computer is irrelavent to what ISPs would be required to do in this scenario, not only in the actuality of what you want, but just in the sheer volume of work required.
Get over yourself, rob. You don't know what you're talking about and it just pisses people off (me and Sacha, at least - I think we're still people) when you pontificate from such an invincible position of ignorance. You're effectively PA's personal copyright troll.
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You're effectively PA's personal copyright troll.
I think that's rather harsh Mark. Whilst I don't agree with much of what Rob is saying, and we've gone back and forth, I still hold both him and what he's achieved over the years, which is not insubstantial, in the cataloguing, archiving and presentation of NZ music in very high regard, as do many in his industry. He's no troll.
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And likewise, I have always acknowledged Rob's contributions to our musical culture.
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Get over yourself, rob.
haha @ mark.
that charge didn't go so well
If I spoke geek in my daily life I'd probably..... nah actually name calling doesn't really effect me on any level.
I'll be your troll if youll be my little goblin. can't say fairer than that
lest we forget - 3 months on my sides still hurtbut seriously though mark, if you've got the experience and knowledge in data analysis at isp level please do share it, in detail.
have a look at some of the data vuse offers in advance mode.
if you're arguing that access at isp level won't have any effect ..... please continue. I'm all ears
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Moving away from the topic of Rob for a moment, this is pretty striking:
The latest data from AdMob, the world's largest mobile advertising marketplace, shows that Apple now dominates the mobile web in the U.S. with a 48% market share. This growth, interestingly enough, does not just come from the iPhone, but the iPod touch also saw a meteoric rise in usage during the last month. Traffic from the iPod touch to AdMob's network in the U.S. increased 3.4 times from November to December.
Overall, requests from the iPod touch increased from 18 million in July 2008 to 292 million in December. While traffic from the iPod touch grew at a steady clip over the last few month, a good part of this growth came, not unsurprisingly, in the week after Christmas. After the iPhone (10%), the iPod touch (4.7% ) is now the second most popular mobile device on sites that run AdMob's advertising. Overall, iPhone requests grew 86% since November.
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The Big Day Out timetable is finally published.
The mainstage lineup looks kinda weak to me once you take out Neil Young, although there will doubtless be a lot of people excited about TV on the Radio (4.10pm) -- but Serj Tankian followed by, um, The Living End (they're from Australia) from 6pm-8pm? Also, Pendulum, a drum 'n' bass act, are playing in the middle of the afternoon, which is odd ...
In the Boiler Room, there's a golden early-evening spell of Simian Mobile Disco, Holy Ghost! and Hot Chip. And then the shithouse Australian trance DJ comes on, but you'll be watching Neil Young anyway. The Prodigy finish up.
The alternative stages are a mixed bag, with nothing to interest me from 7.15 when the Mint Chicks finish until 10.30 when the Headless Chickens start. The Ting Tings (2.30) and Sneaky Sound System will be worth seeing I think.
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I'm not in the BDO target demographic like I once was and other than Neil Young, the line-up is just not my cup-of-tea.
On the other hand, I'm pretty excited about going to ATP in Sydney on Jan 17: Nick Cave, Spiritualized, Dirty Three, Harmonia, Silver Apples, The Saints (orig. lin-up), Laughing Clowns, Robert Forster, The Necks, James Ulmer...
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Pendulum, a drum 'n' bass act, are playing in the middle of the afternoon, which is odd
And it's precisely that rock-is-god munterishness from the organisers that put me off many years ago. Who the f#$k would put Fatboy Slim in a tiny tent rather than the main stage?
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And I should clarify by tiny tent I don't mean the "supertop" but another little one they pitched next door that everyone tried to cram into when the last act on the main stage finished. Closest I've come to being crushed in a crowd and such a disrespectful way to treat one of the peak artists of the time in any genre.
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a golden early-evening spell of Simian Mobile Disco, Holy Ghost! and Hot Chip
Except that in order to get into Neil-Young-viewing possie, I will have to skip Hot Chip and wend my way to the main stage area well ahead of time. Also, TV on the Radio clashing with Lupe Fiasco makes me annoyed.
Still, these are nice problems to have.
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Also, Pendulum, a drum 'n' bass act, are playing in the middle of the afternoon, which is odd ...
That's a real shame. Pendulum rolling up to break the joint before the Prodigy would be ace. Your head would be pummeled for days.
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Also, TV on the Radio clashing with Lupe Fiasco makes me annoyed.
Bummer, that's a harsh clash. Would love to see Lupe (if I was going and all...) but TVotR could well be this years LCD or Flaming Lips.
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but TVotR could well be this years LCD or Flaming Lips.
Or this year's Arcade Fire, given their mainstage slot.
I just wish I could get into them, but they really don't do it for me.
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I just wish I could get into them, but they really don't do it for me.
Bits of their latest album I find jarring and a bit crap. Other bits I think are sublime. It's a funny mixed bag alright.
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Bits of their latest album I find jarring and a bit crap. Other bits I think are sublime. It's a funny mixed bag alright.
Hell I find that about most albums I buy. I thought the first Clash album was good all the way through though....
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Hell I find that about most albums I buy. I thought the first Clash album was good all the way through though....
Word up.
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Yes.
it.
would.mark
just having a look through the info stats available in the Azureus/Vuse bit torrent program.
when set in the advance user mode you can double click on a file you may or may not be downloading, then go to peers and it will list the ip address of the people who have that file available and which bits of it they have if not all of it.
That's quite a lot of info available already, all of that stuff just floating around on the net.
If I can harvest ip addresses of people sharing copyright material its not going to be too hard for anyone else to is it.
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