Hard News: The Press, Privacy and The Paps
155 Responses
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On a scale of one to ten, your patronising goes up to 11, Craig.
Thank, Philip -- you've managed to make me feel physically ill, so we're even.
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"In many parts of the world, the family is under siege. It is opposed by an anti-life mentality as is seen in contraception, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. It is scorned and banalized by pornography, desecrated by fornication and adultery, mocked by homosexuality, sabotaged by irregular unions and cut in two by divorce."
What will it take for homosexuals to stop mocking my family? I ask myself this on a daily basis.
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What will it take for homosexuals to stop mocking my family? I ask myself this on a daily basis.
Tell me about it. Just last week, a group of old lesbians were standing outside my parents' house singing Melissa Etheridge songs in a nasal, mocking fashion until the wee smalls.
Well, either that or Neil Finn's signed up for Music in Parks again...
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Roflnui
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I do also feel under siege from contraception, especially condoms. I've often wondered (to the obvious scorn and banalization of the family) whether money shots are poking fun at the 'withdrawal method'.
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the nice enlightened corner of teh interwebz call Public Address.
*sigh*...if only more people were like us eh ?
What a wonderful world it would be !
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I am more worried by these irregular Unions. Could we get a spokesperson in from the CTU to brief us?
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I've often wondered (to the obvious scorn and banalization of the family) whether money shots are poking fun at the 'withdrawal method'.
I've often wondered why the withdrawal method is encouraged by the Catholic church, while Onanism (ie masturbation) is anathema.
Especially when the book itself says "But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother." Genesis 38:8-10
He weren't wanking. -
Regarding the outing debate, I'm extremely happy with it when it is done at the expense of public figures who have promoted discrimination against queers, whether in the law, religion, business, whatever.
Actually, Giovanni, I read quite a bit of discussion at the time of Larry "Wide Stance" Craig about the deliciousness of that hypocritical arsehole being caught by the fascistic laws that he promoted. And good riddance.
But I don't think that because someone happens to be a public figure, their private life should be a matter of speculation. I didn't think much of Max Mosley in general, but I very much admired his handling of the outing of his SM practices. I also think he won the moral war (in the UK) about what should deemed to be in the "public interest" about public figures' private lives. Not that it's particularly slowed down the tabs over there.
Phillip, yeah, thanks for the quotes around "struggle" when it comes to describing one's coming to terms with one's sexual orientation and people's perception of it, you can stick it up your frigging jumper.
I'm as leftie as you can imagine, and plenty of these so-called left or liberal types have their little areas of bigotry. Try being a young dyke in a union meeting in the mid-80s when the brethren were still bitching about letting women into their trade, much less queers. Not to mention actual personal abuse/manifest discomfort -- and as Craig points out, we do live in a relatively liberal environment.
How nice for you that you haven't had to encounter that kind of difficulty personally. Perhaps you could STFU about how homosexuals are perceived and should behave until such time as you have something to say based on actual knowledge.
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Tracy: Pull your head in. I put quotes around struggle because it was in fact a quote not because I was belittling the idea. I'm not telling anyone how to behave or what to do. Your struggles and difficulties are not the only kinds of struggles and difficulties.
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Jeremy - That's the debate from the Old, not New Testies.
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phillipmatthews last sentence: totally agreed.
TracyMac -asexuals have had zilch support from any homosexual organisation. We - about 1-2% of humanity- did look for -at least- acknowledgement from GLB people.What did we get in ANZ?
Nothing.
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You might expect some support there, but it sounds a bit like atheists looking for support from the muslim minority against the christian majority.
<awaits a visit from the analogy police>
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Jeremy - That's the debate from the Old, not New Testies.
True, the Old is all "eye for an eye" whereas the New is more "love everyone - but not yourself!"
I'll expect input from some of the masters here on PAS. -
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Jeremy Andrew - ur, why? You've lost me.
There is a continuum of sexual orientations among us human apes: from omnisexual to asexual: asexuality is a late-discovered but now well-documented orientation.We thought that obvious supporters would be from another minority
orientation - homosexual people. Not so. They have been rather hostile. -
and as Craig points out, we do live in a relatively liberal environment.
Indeed, Tracey -- and I'm sincerely sorry if Philip felt "patronised" by me for pointing this out but I can take my own freedoms for granted as much as anyone. Nor am I immune to letting schadenfreude trump decency and empathy a lot more often than I should.
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Indeed, Tracey -- and I'm sincerely sorry if Philip felt "patronised" by me for pointing this out but I can take my own freedoms for granted as much as anyone. Nor am I immune to letting schadenfreude trump decency and empathy a lot more often than I should.
To be honest, I think both you and Tracey missed Philip's point, and your language was browbeating and unwarranted.
It should be possible to engage with what someone says without claiming to be made "physically ill".
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It should be possible to engage with what someone says without claiming to be made "physically ill".
OK, Russell, that's a semi-fair ping. Let me put it this way: I find it a little hard to be quite so theoretical about the ethics of "outing". My partner David (who was working for the railways at the time) wasn't the only person who had a very good reason to be scared shitless about the fallout if the Truth had decided to escalate the outing of Marilyn Waring into a full-scale civil service queer-hunt.
I can loathe the way the American far-right treats gays and lesbians, but when it comes to the human reality of the treatment of people like Haggard and Larry Craig. Well, I don't think they're the only people in that equation with the stench of hypocrisy and lack of empathy on their breath.
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And here's a fresh one: Republican state senator with long and unpleasant history of campaigning against gay rights in favour of "Traditional Family Values" picked up by cops after leaving a gay nightclub with another man.
He was arrested for drunk-driving; the gay nightclub tip came later via the local CBS affiliate.
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It should be possible to engage with what someone says without claiming to be made "physically ill".
You have checked the Still Crazy thread recently haven't you? Sometimes it clearly isn't possible to engage without gagging.
Speaking of which, a gagging order may be required.
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OK, Russell, that's a semi-fair ping. Let me put it this way: I find it a little hard to be quite so theoretical about the ethics of "outing".
But I thought Philip made a valid observation. This is what he said:
To me, the public interest here isn't just the hypocrisy of an influential evangelist getting caught doing what he speaks against; it is that his story illustrates the sheer falsity of the idea -- still promoted by Haggard and others like him -- that homosexuality is a disorder that can be cured through counseling. If you're going to define your sexuality as a "struggle" -- rather than accept it and ask others to accept it -- this is what happens, right?
And it's true: even after Haggard's adventures were exposed, he and those around him persisted with the notion of a cure for his sexuality. If they granted that it might simply be his nature, the whole edifice would have come tumbling down.
Another element to the Haggard story is that he was exposed by his own rent boy, Mike Jones -- who explained that when he discovered who and what Haggard was, he couldn't stomach the hypocrisy. Jones talked about it on a local radio show and thus the story broke.
Jones received both support and criticism in the gay press (some people felt he'd breached the confidence implicit in an escort's relationship with a client). He responded:
"[T]his was unique ... someone who is spewing hatred; who's spewing discrimination; who's touching millions of people's lives by his verbal content. And you know what? It couldn’t continue. And I'm sorry that some people feel that way, but I can't change that. I had to do it."
I can appreciate his point of view.
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And here's a fresh one: Republican state senator with long and unpleasant history of campaigning against gay rights in favour of "Traditional Family Values" picked up by cops after leaving a gay nightclub with another man.
Now now, Russell... I'm sure you've left one or two gay clubs with another man in your time, you big old dancing fool of a fag hag. Got anything you'd like to share with the group? :)
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Now now, Russell... I'm sure you've left one or two gay clubs with another man in your time, you big old dancing fool of a fag hag. Got anything you'd like to share with the group? :)
At least I didn't drive drunk afterwards?
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what happens at Alfies stays at Alfies.... ;- )
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