Hard News: The March for Democracy
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A tad over the top, my friend.
It was the tone. Absolutely pointless if you had a differing opinion to others here, on the right for this man Gage to express his views. Attacking persons don't seem to solve much. And yes, Gio and Craig kinda clinched it, (imo) although I didn't think Craig was serious but with no sarcasm tags,it can be hard to read. Engineers and Architects might be only that, but I'd like both to have opinions on buildings seeing as a building is pretty much fucked without them.By all means dispute that which isn't accurate but an open mind as to all the other questionable details could be extremely interesting and even if some are of the "experience" of conspiracy theorists, I know I ain't one but have no problem with questions being asked.
Full Moon is tomorrow. -
Full moon is tomorrow eh, that doesn't surprise me.
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Funny, I keep hearing people talk about the New Moon. And then squealing and sighing. Maybe they're confused?
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It was the tone. Absolutely pointless if you had a differing opinion to others here, on the right for this man Gage to express his views. Attacking persons don't seem to solve much.
Has anyone seriously questioned the right of Gage and co to express their opinion? You're unlikely to find a more liberal view on freedom of expression than mine - heck, I have no problem with Erving coming here and spewing his denial nonsense if some private organisation wants to support him - but it's the appropriateness of Te Papa hosting Gage that was the key objection, it seemed.
As for attacking a person, it was Gage's arguments and some aspects of his rhetoric that was attacked; I didn't see any purely personal digs.
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Funny, I keep hearing people talk about the New Moon. And then squealing and sighing. Maybe they're confused?
Haha!
Anyway, the new moon is on Monday.
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Engineers and Architects might be only that, but I'd like both to have opinions on buildings seeing as a building is pretty much fucked without them
Um, OK... so people claiming professional expertise should, to take one relatively trivial example cited up thread, know what a pyroclastic flow is -- and that it doesn't happen to burning buildings?
One useful thing I got out of the whole thread was the desire to borrow from the library and re-read, Deborah Lipstadt's History on Trial: My Day in Court with David Irving. She puts a compelling case that the most dangerous thing about Irving's holocaust denial is that it was wrapped it up in his authority as a published historian of World War II. It took years, and the effort of many people to painstakingly expose his distortions and outright fabrications regarding the Holocaust in a forum where he had to answer for them. And how often did Iriving excuse his lies and contradiction -- his poisonous anti-semitism and links with extreme far-right groups -- by saying he was just "asking questions" and being victimised by his enemies who profited from the big lie?
At the end of 'Irving v. Penguin Books & Lipstadt', the plaintiff ended up with his reputation as a historian reduced to nothing. And so it should be, authority and expertise needs to be earned not just asserted.
It's knowledge, bro -- and it doesn't matter whether you're a historian, architect or one of those "real" plumbers Mr. Curtis has wood for, REALITY IS NOT OPEN TO DEBATE.
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Insync, is an incredibly difficult word to spell.
I think you'll find it's spelled N'SYNC.
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It was the tone.
Maybe I'm just a hard-faced old meanypants with a crappy douchebaggery-dar, but I re-read that thread this morning and was completely nonplussed. Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder? Seriously, that way lies madness for a community like this one, peeps. Have it out at the time, or don't have it out at all.
Moreover, Giovanni had spent quite a long time articulating his Gage-related arguments in his (linked, I believe?) blog post, so he wasn't 'trading on his status' so he didn't have to make an argument, or whatever Joe's theory was. Weak sauce.
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@Steve P
How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air? -
How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air?
Because laughing at Simon Le Bon is hugely relaxing!
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Not so sure Danielle.
I had been battling with the Equinox Winds and the full moon, and was almost coping. Now I’m doing that battle with Duran Duran running around my head.
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Actually very frightening in hindsight.
Even more frightening when the bastards didn't have their reflexes and depth perception dulled by alcohol poisoning, I submit. Much easier to deal with scary rough trade when they're doing the locomotion like this:
Added bonus: Too hung over to remember why they wanted to pound on your arse in the first place.
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Steven Crawford wrote:
Insync, is an incredibly difficult word to spell.
That is because it is not a word. "In synch" is what you were after (though it looks like "in sync" is now being used as well).
HTH.
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Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder?
It was enough to drive one of the best contributors this forum's had out of here for good, something I've only recently become aware of. You'll forgive me, Danielle, if I choose not to take your little homilies to heart. Like Giovanni, you probably have little idea of just how condescending your tone can be.
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Oh for fuck's sake, Joe. You can sound the same, sometimes. I like Ian a lot, too. But Gio deserved some slack, if it was even true that he sounded a bit harsh (I don't think he did).
Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder?
No.
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@Steve P
How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air?Your mistake is in assuming I want to ease the tension.
their reflexes
Oh, you’re just asking for it...
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I think it is incredibly sad that this whole fallout is because someone came to New Zealand with a theory about something that happened on the other side of the world several years ago. Nice people have received hate mail, the reputations of public institutions are questioned, and former friends no longer talk. Is it really worth it?
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Oh for fuck's sake, Joe. You can sound the same, sometimes.
Oh, don't be ridicolous, Joe would never say something that causes offence.
(Kindly navigate to the top of the next page for his response.)
I did say I would drop it, didn't I? Nice to see I get called out anyway.
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You'll forgive me, Danielle, if I choose not to take your little homilies to heart. Like Giovanni, you probably have little idea of just how condescending your tone can be.
Dude, I know *exactly* how condescending my tone can be. I calibrate all my PAS posts extra specially using my Condescending-Homilies-Meter! I bought it on Amazon.
(Incidentally, you're currently being a douche, but it's OK: I won't be snarking at you a week from now in some other thread. You're welcome.)
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Nice people have received hate mail
That they have!
Is it really worth it?
I'm on record claiming it's a serious issue, and should be treated as such. And it may be something that happened away from New Zealand several years ago, but so are many other atrocities.
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But is it worth such destruction of relationships here?
How about trying some restorative justice processes? -
Restorative justice requires an independent facilitator. Are there any Judges with some spare time out there?
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Some things re this and other current threads from someone who's been running online discussion for a while now and participating in them for a lot longer.
1. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow. I have perfectly civil real-life relations with people I might have argued with viciously at some time, or who have out-and-out abused me.
2. If someone offends you, say so. Say, "hey, that was a bit much" or "I'm offended by that" or "that was unnecessary". If you think someone else has been treated rudely or unfairly, you can say that too.
3. If someone says you've offended them, take that in good faith and with good grace. Acknowledge it. That doesn't mean you have to change your opinion on an issue.
4. Places like this will always have a bias towards people who have strong prose styles and write strong, persuasive arguments citing facts and/or experience. It's just the way it is.
5. That doesn't mean it's okay to bring out the big guns all the time. I still deploy the Words of Mass Destruction very occasionally (last time, it was Redbaiter and I was bored) but never actually on PAS.
6. People of a different political persuasion who come here infrequently and preface whatever they have to say by slagging off the community of people who write here regularly will buy themselves an argument. They will also almost always switch to victim mode when that happens and act like their human rights are being flouted because someone disagrees with them or makes fun of them. There's little to be done about this.
7. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow.
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7. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow.
You obviously haven't seen the blueprints for my Doomsday Device.
Ops, I said too much.
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Uh, hate mail?
I don't want to run a site that generates hate mail. I would like anyone who has sent anything of the kind to apologise and not do it again.
Ian's a dear old friend and I'm sad that he was offended. He was dealt with brusquely, but that happens sometimes. As Sean Plunket said to me recently, "Russell, we live in the cauldron of ideas."
Please, no more of this.
[See below. Host got slightly wrong end of stick. RB]
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