Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The fake news problem

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  • John Farrell, in reply to BenWilson,

    You will, however, be able to have mutton for every meal, and bathe in milk powder.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to BenWilson,

    NZ can make cars, electronics, and grow bananas, but I get your point.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to John Farrell,

    mutton for every meal, and bathe in milk powder.

    On Fridays you can have fish , and bathe in the ocean.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank,

    Sometimes it isn't easy, distinguishing between fake news & real. If someone told you that a squirrel died in a kamikaze attack on a politician, you'd suspect it was fake eh? What if they told you they read it in the NZ Herald? Some cynics would still go for fake, no doubt. But it looks like the antipolitician groundswell in the USA has infected local wildlife... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11754844

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Cars and electronics - from imported components.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to John Farrell,

    Cars and electronics – from imported components.

    and mutton from….

    At some point we might just have to admit that we're a bit thick, our number #8 wire mentality won't cut it in the digital age, we can't recycle, we can't build anything from scratch, heck our chief reason for not getting the electoral commission to introduce a more rigorous voter eligibility criteria is that although we can trust them to count the votes we couldn't possibly trust them to oversee a system to ensure voters understand what they're doing because of some racists 50 years ago. The famous kiwi can't do attitude.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell, in reply to mark taslov,

    Imported phosphate and veterinary drugs.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to John Farrell,

    I put the phosphate and drugs in a bowl, I stirred them up, wacked them in the microwave, added a little salt, still no mutton, what be happening? Is it that we're arguing against FG's larger point from an absolutist position?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell,

    I was involved in the electronics industry (when we had one). The only locally sourced components we used were printed circuit boards....and they were made from an imported substrate.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to John Farrell,

    Here’s what they did, they set up Special Economic Zones, wages undercut the global competition, leading global tech companies relocated their manufacturing to the zones. They reverse engineered the tech they were tasked with manufacturing and copied it. Obviously problematic, but nothing on this page strikes me as compelling justification to eschew the broader aim of greater domestic self-sufficiency, unless of course it is indeed our desire to remain a client state indefinitely, prone to all the elements.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to mark taslov,

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Farmer Green,

    “free trade” this idea is radical if not heretical, and is patently anti-globalisation.

    How about this for a radical idea, stop all this dicking around trade agreements which are usually a crock of shite anyway and for the benefit of a few not the many.
    Make sure everyone has good health care and a good standard of living, the children are being educated and cared for globally, and the rest of us sit down and work out how we can become a global society instead of a divided species living in different parts of this globe circling the sun, and how we can make it sustainable for future generations until we can explore other parts of the cosmos. And make existence mean more than a monetary unit.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    I had a (very) brief skim of the blogpost in question, and to be fair to The Archdruid, and Farmer Green, that isn't exactly the suggestion being made.

    More like a food miles kind of thing, I think, and pragmatic enough to import what can't be produced locally.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Rich Lock,

    And acknowledging that NZ needs to be exporting if we are going to service and repay our debts .
    So it is about trade, which will never be totally free, and is unlikely to be all in our favour. Most likely we will think it unfair to varying degrees.
    The message for NZ might be to produce things that give us the returns we need to stay afloat ; unlikely that this will be milk powder to third world markets.

    This arrived yesterday ; seems like same old:-

    https://www.nzmp.com/about-nzmp/our-unique-land.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20161111_GrassFed_NZ_NZMP&utm_source=sfmc&et_rid=0039000000DmjM9AAJ

    What does the panel think?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Just an observation that the interest rate on a five year loan term has not been lower in the last 40 years. It may not last much longer ; less than one year in my view.

    https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/11/25/crash2-you-know-its-imminent-when/

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Farmer Green,

    What does the panel think?

    Where's the good news?
    Oh that's right there is none, unless you believe Fonterra is the answer
    Which means suspending disbelief
    So I'll just resume a holding pattern waiting for the shit to hit the industrial sized fan
    As there doesnt seem to be a lot I can do about it.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    If you are identifying the Fonterra guff as pure spin, then you could be right. On the positive side, it is a move to get rid of PKE.
    Maybe replace it with more nitrogen fertiliser?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    a data based investigation into the propagation mechanisms of the US political "news"-like stories

    https://points.datasociety.net/fake-news-is-not-the-problem-f00ec8cdfcb#.1anmzfrqk

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to David Hood,

    A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. -Max Planck.
    Another relevant aphorism is – ” the truth will out”.
    Or this- It is not the possession of truth, but the success which attends the seeking after it, that enriches the seeker and brings happiness to him.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to David Hood,

    A fascinating analysis, eh? Seems sophisticated, even if reliant on diagnosis by computer (we know computers get things wrong often). Those visual displays of clusters of users connecting with each other on a particular meme are an excellent illustration of the old adage that a picture is worth a thousand words. One of them shows Trump exhibiting more of a nexus than God - perhaps an advisor will suggest to him that he can now go one up on John Lennon (who created headlines by pointing out that the Beatles were now more popular than Christ).

    The point is that propaganda has now morphed into the mass construction of artificial social realities that become reality in the minds of those in the co-creating group, and fake news is (as the author asserts) just part of that group creative endeavour.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    the mass construction of artificial social realities that become reality in the minds of those in the co-creating group,

    Hallelujah! He is risen!
    I've been supplying to retail for 35 years. When we have a marketing issue , we tend to say :- 'What would the Roman Catholic Church do in this situation?"
    It usually gives some clue.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    It’s puzzling that this “fake news ” meme is considered novel.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-25/meet-real-fake-news

    Yeah I know . . . ZH

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Farmer Green,

    I don't think anyone considers or has claimed propaganda to be novel,

    p.s. if you did due diligence on the zero hedge article, there were several misrepresentations in it. Possibly most ironically that they had been called a fake news site. They hadn't. They had appeared on a list of sites post fake articles, or misleading articles or clickbait. And their response was to publish an article that misrepresented what the list was about (there are other misrepresentations in the article- like that the list only targeted right-wing sites, which fall apart if people actually check).

    Tim O'Reilly recently published his thoughts on identifying made up or misleading stories https://medium.com/@timoreilly/how-i-detect-fake-news-ebe455d9d4a7#.9eis4ntz9

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to David Hood,

    Poor phrasing on my part. It was puzzling that fake news is receiving so much attention at this time . Has something changed , or was the reportage itself more of the same?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Something has changed- the U.S. election was seen as having unprecedented amounts of fake news, in many cases created by people deliberately to earn a living from successful Facebook shares of the "news" material- if you follow the money the economic incentive is new. So discussion of fake news has increased dramatically since October

    https://www.google.co.nz/trends/explore?q=fake%20news,propaganda

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

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