Hard News: The Debate and Onwards
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SEE! SHE DIDN'T BALLS IT UP! is probably enough of a headline for her anyway...
Indeed. I believe this is an example of what someone was calling "the soft bigotry of low expectations" eight years ago. She's can competently deliver talking points and rather cringe inducing laugh lines after three days cramming at McCain's ranch. Give her a cookie...
So, she's perfectly qualified for softball booty calls on right-wing talk radio -- but that's what she's been doing already.
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Agreed, Biden came across as a very smart, very upright guy. I hadn't seen much of him before, and I now want to see more.
I thought Biden was by some stretch the best of the four candidates in the debate format. He said stuff in a way that let you know he really knew it.
Palin? Whatever. I saw the video of the gubernatorial debates from Alaska earlier in the week, and she was way more aggressive in those.
Radio NZ's US commentator has just been on saying she "won" in the sense that she projected folksy appeal to the base, but Biden clearly "won" on substance.
That seemed really patronising to me -- people vote for the candidate who repeatedly winks at them? -- but perhaps he was right.
I did find myself wishing Gwen Ifill was Sean Plunket when Palin repeatedly refused to answer questions she had nothing on ...
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Biden romped home in the CNN snap poll; more detail.
The pundit roundup favours Biden also.
In sum, Palin didn't fall on her face (I think anyone who'd looked at her form would have expected that to be the case -- she's a former newscaster, and she knows how to be on camera), and Biden did himself, and his ticket, a lot of good.
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I thought Biden was by some stretch the best of the four candidates in the debate format. He said stuff in a way that let you know he really knew it.
I completely agree. He's a substantive character worthy of his position on the ticket and reassuring to anyone who's got misgivings about Obama (but wants to vote Democrat). I suspect that when I read Palin's debate, it'll be that much less impressive, whereas his commentary will stand-up. I'll confess I wanted to see her overwhelmed; her candidacy is a fraud and I'd hoped it would be revealed.
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Well, I don't have much to say on this debate thing, that's all a bunch of boring old Washington insider talk. I'm just here to give a big shout out to all you PA readers at elementary school. Y'all get extra credit for reading this thread tonight! Now, gosh darn it, it is waay past your bedtime!
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she's a former newscaster, and she knows how to be on camera)
Which of course makes reporters hate her more. (One of their own, etc.)
Thanks, for the music links RB!
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A great Variety piece on Letterman vs McCain, and Letterman v Leno. Money quote:
... it’s as simple as the distinction between a comic (even an admirably hard-working one) and an old-fashioned broadcaster, predicated on Letterman’s ability to create his show at the desk in a manner Leno -- still more natural as a standup than a talkshow host -- never could.
Much has been stated about Letterman’s virtuoso mix of comedy and righteous indignation after GOP presidential nominee John McCain’s last-minute "Late Show" cancellation ... Little of the commentary, however, has adequately characterized why the tongue-lashing Letterman administered was so remarkable -- a barrage of jabs that MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann (who had a front-row seat for the tirade) described as "perhaps the sharpest, certainly the most persistent political satire of the campaign."
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The best satire I've seen was Bill Maher - second half of this clip
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Simon - genius.
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I avoided this thread til after I watched the VOA broadcast on Stratos tonite
I just want to note that she used the phrase 'back in the day' in her closing statement.
And later she gave a 'shout out' to her brothers 3rd grade elementary class (he's the teacher, lest ye get snarky). I was surprised she didn't give a 'holler back' to her homegirl Hillary ...
Did you also catch "Say it ain't so, Joe, there ya go again!"
And she winked at the audience. Twice.
Yeah, but that stuff works, and not just with the 'base'. Wrong/sad - but true.
Radio NZ's US commentator has just been on saying she "won" in the sense that she projected folksy appeal to the base, but Biden clearly "won" on substance.
That seemed really patronising to me -- people vote for the candidate who repeatedly winks at them? -- but perhaps he was right.
I'm at odds with the everyone else it seems since I think Palin won the debate, much as I wish it was the other way round. Palin projected a smiling image of 'plain folks' no-nonsense without appearing the Alaskan Bumpkin many may have been expecting given the recent ABC and CBS interviews. On that point Palin also said (paraphrasing) "I like talking directly to you the American people, without being filtered by the Mainstream Media". Code for: don't let the liberal media lie to you about me. Ditto for the pundits.
Biden romped home in the CNN snap poll; more detail.
The pundit roundup favours Biden also.
In sum, Palin didn't fall on her face
Granted, but I'm sticking with my gut feel that middle America will have eaten Palin up (quiet, Craig!). Yes, we can all agree that Biden gave substantive answers and dealt to the issues but Palin had the charm. As much as we may bite our fists and scream as she lied or misrepresented Obama's position/voting record she was (like Goebbels) adept at insisting her ticket was the ticket that would deliver change and right all that is wrong about America. And everytime Biden tried to tie McCain to Bush she countered with the (ludicrous to us) 'why do you keep talking about the last 8 years, why are you always looking back if you claim to be the party of change?'
Biden was direct but gave long answers, Palin was equally direct with shorter answers that may not have answered the question but would have 'sounded right' to many voters. And she looked smiley and perky so maybe things aint gonna be so bad after all, alrightey?
As I've said, I get cynical around election time. Lets hope the American voters can remember the correct "Fool me once..." quote, and not the Bush massacre of same.
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Yet again clinical psychologist Michael Shaw at The Bag had a perceptive take on the debate. His commentators are also sharp and with him have been developing their insights into visual language via his posts.
One commentator talks about the Palin baby onstage after the debate.Several times I've found it disturbing to see the Palin baby appearing floppy in the arms of multiple family members. Tonight I watched the live feed continue on the NYT site and was really disturbed to see that baby still floppy. (I'm a nurse and watch for parent child interaction as a sign of bonding - especially critical with special needs children). Sarah never looked for or at her child when the family went on stage. She ignored the baby, as did Todd. Fundamentalists often believe that special needs children are a punishment from God, and I'm really wondering if the lack of interest by them in this baby isn't a manifestation of rejecting the child.
If you can get photos of Sarah with the baby I'd be interested in your take. When she did hold him, she never looked at him, didn't do anything other than fast pat his back (pat, pat, pat, pat, pat) as if she was burping him. But he appeared totally floppy - he didn't cry, he didn't open his eyes - he didn't react in any discernible way. She quickly handed him off to her next youngest without any look to assure that she was holding him safely. That was the last the baby had any attention from either parent.
The six year old stood between her and Joe Biden at one point, and Joe had his hands on her shoulders in a grandfather type gesture. Sarah was too busy talking to Joe to take notice of her daughter, who was looking away from both of them and smiling at someone off camera.
There doesn't seem to be any overt warmth between Sarah and her children. Todd just seemed starstruck and was basking in his testosterone fueled glow.
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There doesn't seem to be any overt warmth between Sarah and her children.
Isn't this getting just a little hairsplitty? I mean, the Palin camp may be attempting to reap political capital from parading her Downs child in the media, but half-baked analysis at this level of detail (attempting to wring meaning from the behaviour of young children on TV, FFS) comes across as nothing more than the nasty flipside of Republican cynicism.
As for fundies regarding 'special' children as a form of divine punishment, while it might be true in Palin's case - for all any of us know - it's creepily reminiscent of the ugly and spurious rumours about Seventh Day Adventists, back when the majority of good sensible urban liberals believed Lindy Chamberlain was guilty as hell.
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VP debate in song and dance:
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That's fair comment I think for the quote in it's isolation. But if you look through Shaw's site there is a collection of material that's pretty fascinating. There's another comment in the thread that quotes in full Palin's 'education' speech. Amongst other things you see how she set him up the start with 'May I call you Joe?' and then used the planned 'Say it ain't so Joe' and then damned his college profesor wife with faint praise by including her in the shout out about school teachers.
In isolated detail these things may be stretching it a bit far but I must confess I find this sort of deconstruction very interesting.
The Reagan quote at the end is expalined by Paul Krugman.Unbelievable. Sarah Palin finished her closing remarks by quoting Ronald Reagan:
It was Ronald Reagan who said that freedom is always just one generation away from extinction. We don’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream; we have to fight for it and protect it, and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same, or we’re going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children about a time in America, back in the day, when men and women were free.When did he say this? It was on a recording he made for Operation Coffeecup — a campaign organized by the American Medical Association to block the passage of Medicare. Doctors’ wives were supposed to organize coffee klatches for patients, where they would play the Reagan recording, which declared that Medicare would lead us to totalitarianism.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
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Granted, but I'm sticking with my gut feel that middle America will have eaten Palin up (quiet, Craig!).
But there's just no evidence that Palin broke through to anyone who wasn't already locked in to vote for her anyway. The poling says independents and committed voters went for Biden quite strongly.
Maybe she converted a few people who might not otherwise have voted, but she did that from day one anyway. (Nice work by Biden getting her to sign up to civil unions though ... )
Me, I'm thinking that Americans might actually be more exercised about the economy this time than the insane culture war that's defined the Republicans for a generation. And if that's the case, Obama wins.
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From the Anchorage Daily News (and AP)
Sarah Palin questioned Republican presidential candidate John McCain's decision to abandon efforts to win Michigan, a campaign move she only learned about Friday morning when she read it in the newspapers.
In an interview with Fox News Channel Friday, the Alaska governor said she was disappointed that the McCain campaign decided to stop competing in Michigan. In an indication that the vice presidential candidate had not been part of the decision, she said she had "read that this morning and I fired off a quick e-mail" questioning the move.
Left hand, right hand?
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Having now had a chance to see some of the debate, rather than just listen, this is a significant moment where it becomes incredibly obvious how disconnected from the event Palin really is. Biden's personal history is significant and his commentary appears genuine, I'm sure you could take a cynical view but I choose not too, and her reaction is just to segue to another talking point. Had she really been the maverick, the unscripted innocent she claims, she'd have recognised the need to acknowledge his point in some way.
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Latest on the Troopergate investigation the Republicans are trying to stonewall.
Having been given the raspberry by a judge, they're now going to the Alaska Supreme Court to try and stop the report being released next Friday, as scheduled.
That's just not going to be good.
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Exactly Paul. I don't have the reference here but a similar thing happened over the question about taking over as President. Biden took the time to acknowledge what a catastrophic event that would be before saying what he would do while Palin breezily rattled off her 'talking points'. You can see this in the videos of her gubernatorial debates with the question on 'what would your attitude to abortion be if your daughter was raped ' Both the other respondents drop their heads and acknowledge what a terrible situation that would be before giving their opinions. Palin just says matter of factly she believes in the sanctity of life in the same mode she just answered a question on oil revenues.
Sorry I haven't linked to any of this. If Nate Silver's right then the fear that this person could one day be at the heart of power is receding pretty fast and probably not worth wasting too much more energy on.
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If Nate Silver's right then the fear that this person could one day be at the heart of power is receding pretty fast and probably not worth wasting too much more energy on.
This first-hand report of the McCain ground game, or lack thereof in Missouri, makes me think "landslide" more than anything else so far. It makes the Republicans seem like the last days of Rome.
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Meanwhile, the comments accompanying an Instapundit post-poll debate (Surprise! Palin 75-25) are seriously deranged. Glenn Reynolds and Malkin seem happy to let their reputations go down with the party.
Via: Instaputz.
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Fact Checking The Debate
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You're assuming they still have reputations...
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Glenn Reynolds and Malkin seem happy to let their reputations go down with the party.
A quick browse of the Beeb had this under Experts Score the Debate from Michelle Malkin:
Sarah Palin is the real deal. Five weeks on the campaign trail, thrust onto the national stage, she rocked tonight's debate. She was warm, fresh, funny, confident, energetic, personable, relentless, and on message. (5 out of 5)
My first thought was that Malkin would have given Palin 5 out of 5 if she'd mounted a polar bear on stage and promised to bomb the russkis in her first week on the job. But Malkin is fucking nuts.
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See previous comment ;-)
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