Hard News: So far from trivial
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I recon Ellis could get Ridge to smoke crystals of pure uric-acid & pay for the pleasure of it.
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You mean taking the piss?
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And now I am reminded of all the other ladies today because the AB's didn't win
Care to back that one up? Because t seems to be an endless circle-jerk of people making a claim with no actual evidence.
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Sara Bee;
I'm disappointed but not all that surprised by hear your story. I've been to lots of rugby matches and almost all of were free of this kind of harassment. A couple however, were not. I've seen this kind of shit and it pisses me off enormously ~ the old Lancaster Park was the worst IMO. I can take my wife and kids other sports, netball for instance, and almost guarantee no hassles, sadly not the case for rugby or for cricket - there's parts of the SCG I'd never sit - and the common denominator is booze.
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Not sure about this, but doesn't
an endless circle-jerk of people
refer only to men? Good to see you're not insulting the intelligence of us women.
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Roger I don't have the references or the inclination but I remember one study where the spike of family violence after a game was actually higher if the team won.
It's all about arousal and the prevailing culture around gender and violence, and as someone pointed out earlier it's the same in many other countries although the dominant male team sport may vary.
Police and Womens Refuge, etc, would have the local rates that show a correlation, but you need other evidence to robustly make sense of it.
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Then solution, then Sacha, would be to make all men watch the match on Prime (as I do). Since the beginning of the tri-nations they've extended the time it takes to broadcast a match. This meanS more time for commercials. They went to a break about a minute before the end, leaving us waiting to see if Carter could do the droppy. But the extended breaks are enuff to deaden any stimulation, win or lose.
For myself, I was a little disappointed in the result. But as I thought it was all going to be over once Williams went off, the rise in effort and skill from the youngsters made for an exciting match.... and positive for the future.
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What is a "circle-jerk"?
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Yes booze was definitely the factor, well at least, for the overt expression of the opinions...
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If Veitch is truly honest he'll tell the police EXACTLY what happened and repeat it all in court if it ends up there.
Sacha, I've also heard the violence increases when a team wins. Something to do with more booze being consumed in celebration.
And Carolyn, it's all positive for the future with our youngsters until they leave to play in Europe in a couple of years and we have to rebuild on top of the rebuild of the rebuild before reconditioning and rotating return to be reintroduced
;)
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Sorry, I'm just not buying the attempts to spin Veitch as some kind of victim here,
I'm not seeing that at all craig, and I'm also not really seeing an acknowledgment that he's one of us, everyman(person), a member our society, an indication that we have a problem at all levels, not just poor people in addington who we prefer not to think about. Veitch as loathsome as some of his actions may be is a flawed human, some mothers son, some wife's husband, some peoples friend. What gets me is this above fault attitude of people who feel fit to look down on him as something they can never be, and no one around them will be either.
We'd get a lot further in solving violence in our society if we accepted the fact that it isn't faceless monsters and celebrities that we don't know that do this shit, its our society that does and we're a wee ways off getting it all under control. Accepting shit behaviour in sport and on our streets is only degrees away from accepting punching your significant other, or fracturing (crushing, shattering, breaking) his or her back.Because then he'd have done his time (assuming he was convicted) and would be entitled to rehabilitation.
that's very old fashion of you rich to equate time behind bars with 'suitable for re integration into society'.
is punishment the best course of action to crime? I personally want veitch to be a safe person to have in society and to work to fix the wrong doing he has done ahead of wanting to have him sit in a cell sucking up tax dollars. -
In lieu of a longer post I just wrote in response to your latest apology for domestic violence, Ian - bollocks.
jackie jackie jackie
if only we all could live in the same black and white world where crimes were committed by distant people we don't know instead of fathers, brothers, sisters and neighbours,
that would make it so much easier to judge others without taking anything else into account.as a newlywed I slapped my husband across the face to get a reaction.
I notice the lion man, that bastion of domestic violence doesn't go intimidating his lions while unarmed and alone in their cage.
is it ok if I call you irresponsible and disrespectful of the delicate balance between male and female for your knowing actions?. I mean that in a loving caring way of course.
there is an animal inside the sophisticated human and yes if you push any of us male and female alike you'll get a response,
its where that line that we try not to cross is, and where we as a society say is reasonable for that line to be placed. -
If Veitch is truly honest he'll tell the police EXACTLY what happened and repeat it all in court if it ends up there.
I wish i knew more humans like that. all the one's I've met justify their actions to themselves as they go, depending on how it suits their own vision of themselves.
If we were really honest about ourselves I wonder how many of us would act differently.not that anyone wants to mention it but having been in a scrap or 2 but not since school days it usually takes 2 people and is escalated in degrees, sometimes very rapidly. each degree relinquishes a level of control and at each level you justify doing something that the calm and rational you wouldn't bother doing, or see yourself doing,
I don't know what shameful details lie behind the night veitch did his unforgivable act, but is he a motiveless wife serial wife beater cos there are a fair few out there who deserve our attention too, or is he a guy that got into a heated argument and clocked past more levels than he could handle, maybe only a few degrees past what us perfect people sometimes reach in our daily lives.
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In lieu of a longer post I just wrote in response to your latest apology for domestic violence, Ian - bollocks.
jackie jackie jackie
if only we all could live in the same black and white world where crimes were committed by distant people we don't know instead of fathers, brothers, sisters and neighbours,
that would make it so much easier to judge others without taking anything else into account.Isn't that the very definition of apologist?
I look at it more like time out. He appears to need sobering from his aggrandizing delusions. He's obviously unaware that other people actually feel pain. A spell in the tank might prepare him for the real world of human relationships. He might come out of clink with a more fulfilling outlook on life.
Nicely put. I hope so too.
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Care to back that one up?
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but is he a motiveless wife serial wife beater cos there are a fair few out there who deserve our attention too, or is he a guy that got into a heated argument and clocked past more levels than he could handle, maybe only a few degrees past what us perfect people sometimes reach in our daily lives.
Um, I'm going to go with option one.
Because option two is trying to excuse putting someone in a wheelchair for several months.I don't think violence is a part of normal healthy relationships.
If you regularly have to suppress the urge to clock your loved one, you need professional help.
I'm speaking to the rhetorical "you" of course. -
robbery, I'm not going to engage with you for one very particular reason. If you can carry on a 30+ page debate - mainly with yourself and one other participant most of the time - then you obviously enjoy the sound of your own voice. I have already stated my opinion on these pages, many times - I have no need to add to them. I would suggest to you however, that if you are as interested in "healthy debate" as you say you are, cut out the patronising shit. Argue with yourself as much as you like, and you obviously do like. Just don't think that you're asking the hard questions, or that anybody here hasn't already asked themselves those questions.
If we were really honest about ourselves I wonder how many of us would act differently.
I would suggest to you, that your need to ask that question says more about you, than it does about the people to whom you pose the question.
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Robbery: G.W Bush said if you are not for our USA then you must be with the Terrorists! I was against the Iraqi war.(DV) But concern for such things as the collateral fallout, medical help for the population etc was hard to discuss without seeming to be for the war. The issues here seem to be as inflexible. Keep up the good work. You are not an apologist for domestic violence. Was going to look up "apologist" to see if it looked like fitting anything said on these posts but it is a bit late.
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The issues here seem to be as inflexible.
You know, for people who claim to be wanting more complexity in this discussion, you and rob sure don't seem to be noticing anyone else's lengthy, nuanced arguments about violence, control or the lack thereof, and empathy.
I would also like to say that I find this 'oh, you're just so naive and black and white because you haven't experienced "losing it" the way so many of us have'' argument *so. freaking. patronising*. The police were called to my house for domestic disturbances more than once when I was a child (um, Kyle, I hope your Dad wasn't there. Heh). I am not speaking from a place of inexperienced naivete, and you should *never* assume that anyone else here is either. (I hugely resent mentioning this just to 'prove' my bona fides, too. Feh.)
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Thanks Danielle.
Well spoken. Sorry you had to "bring it", but sometimes it needs to be brought.Also, can I be bridesmaid? I am v. good at wearing horrendous colours in shapeless dresses!
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Yes, we will need bridesmaids. Danielle will definitely have to organise the frocks though - I have the feeling her sense of style is somewhat more, um, stylish than mine. Deborah?
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um, Kyle, I hope your Dad wasn't there. Heh
OK, now you're really weirding me out.
But probably not, he always worked in Auckland Central district when he was a 'real cop'.
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Of course, I meant I'm very good at wearing shapeless dresses in horrendous colours, but you get the idea...
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Yeah, I've been about as nuanced and empathetic as you're going to get from me, that's fer sure. Moving on.
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you can carry on a 30+ page debate
damn straight and I think we should wind up this page less it challenges my previous record. one wonders why you were hanging round monitoring a discussion you weren't interested in though.
then you obviously enjoy the sound of your own voice
I like a good discussion. you should hear me sing "melting pot"
I have already stated my opinion on these pages, many times
yeah, I noticed, many times, but seemingly saying the same thing,
cut out the patronising shit.
hmmmm,
no the new me is avoiding responding to that one although I did write 5 or 6 witty one liners to that I'll leave them out of this discussion.
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