Hard News: Mandela
219 Responses
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
delete, control...
...memory-hole/rewrite history...
Let's also not forget the global secret-mongers who, I'm sure, would like us to forget just who sold Mandela out back in '62.
...at the time of Mr. Mandela's arrest in August 1962, the C.I.A. devoted more resources to penetrating the activities of nationalist groups like the African National Congress than did South Africa's then-fledgling security service.
The account said the American intelligence agency was willing to assist in the apprehension of Mr. Mandela because it was concerned that a successful nationalist movement threatened a friendly South African Government. Expansion of such movements outside South Africa's borders, the agency feared, would jeopardize the stability of other African states,,
...the C.I.A. had put an undercover agent into the inner circle of the African National Congress group in Durban.
That agent provided the intelligence service with detailed accounts of the organization's activities, including information on the whereabouts of Mr. Mandela, then being sought as a fugitive for his anti-apartheid activities..These are the same people we are expected to trust as we are being led, as a nation, blindfold over the rubicon of TPPA-No Return...
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
seeing him released from Robben Island on live TV in 1990.
What that video shows is Mandela's release from Victor Verster Prison in the Western Cape, where he spent the last 14 months of his imprisonment. Prior to that he'd been incarcerated for over 6 years in Pollsmoor Prison in Cape Town, after being transferred from Robben Island.
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Sacha, in reply to
according to veteran union leader Ken Douglas
and what a disappointment he was
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Six inconvenient positions Mandela supported.
(via Sapna Samant) -
PM selects interesting official tour party for the funeral.
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nzlemming, in reply to
Six inconvenient positions Mandela supported.
(via Sapna Samant)And he was correct on all of them.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
What that video shows is Mandela’s release from Victor Verster Prison in the Western Cape, where he spent the last 14 months of his imprisonment. Prior to that he’d been incarcerated for over 6 years in Pollsmoor Prison in Cape Town, after being transferred from Robben Island.
Thank you.
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Kracklite, in reply to
"I... I... I... I..."
Oh great, Hooton sees an opportunity to tell us all about how he likes to think of himself. Get over yourself and show some respect Hoots, this isn't about you.
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Mandela had his own house in the grounds of the medium security Victor Verster prison. It's been preserved as a national monument. Prior to that he had a roof garden at the huge maximum security Pollsmoor, which was a privilege he'd been denied in his years on Robben Island. Today Pollsmoor holds almost twice as many inmates as it was designed for.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Oh great, Hooton sees an opportunity to tell us all about how he likes to think of himself. Get over yourself and show some respect Hoots, this isn’t about you.
Yeah, it is. It's a place where people share their experience. That's the heartbeat of it.
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Sacha, in reply to
not called for. you can do better
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I've been getting increasingly irritated with the Meeja on Mandela and I think part of the reason is ...
There's a lot of Internet Mandela. He was readily accessible and Google-able, even after he stood down as President. The images of Internet Mandela (the old dude in the funny shirts, meeting endless celebs) are dominating the coverage. Especially when the journos are, you know, 12 (and a half). He was off Robben Island before some of them were born.
Contrast with the deaths of Reagan and Thatcher. There was no Internet Reagan. He announced he had Alzheimer's and withdrew completely from all public life in the mid-90's. So when he died, the images were of his political ascendancy in the 1980's, not his post-career. (And what images, courtesy of his brilliant PR team).
There was a bit of Internet Thatcher, but not much. She withdrew not long after Reagan. So again, back to the '80s clips, and "you turn if you want to".
I'd kinda like a TV newsreader to say "he was behind bars for 27 years, but there was no webcam in the cell, so here's another picture of Mandela meeting Bono or Beckham. Sorry."
There has been some very good stuff (thanks, BBC World Service radio), but not much from the NZ media. The Herald for example, dug out their editorials from the '90's, published on his release, and then his election as President. That's fine, but did the Herald have nothing to say about Mandela and apartheid in the 50's and 60's? About the regime he struggled against? Yes, they probably did, but they may not want to remember it today, or share it with us.
Obits for the old and famous are always prepared well in advance (I bet they've had Prince Philip's in the can for years). Given they had months to prepare for this, I think a better job could have been done.
(exceptions - TV3 last night, and Paul Thomas in the Weekend Herald. Others?).
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Kracklite, in reply to
Considering Hooton's past record of racist invective about the "dumb bros" in Mana or the "stupid maori" in Labour - his hypocrisy deserves bluntness, not sophisticated tolerance. There are plenty of people like David Cameron who wore "Hang Mandela" badges" getting into full Uriah Heep mode now and this should be a time for honest reflection, not sentimental sanctimony.
There are processes by which dead heroes/heroines are appropriated and turned into recruiting posters for causes they never supported. There are a lot of people who called Nelson Mandela a terrorist and demanded his execution who are now trying to use him to lend gloss to themselves. It's grotesque and insidious and it shouldn't be shielded by sentimentality.
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Sacha, in reply to
this should be a time for honest reflection
exactly. Trust your own sense of dignity. Mandela is one of the greatest examples of that during our lifetime. Don't let yourself down.
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Kracklite, in reply to
"Mandela is one of the greatest examples of that during our lifetime."
I believe that deeply.
Dignity, I'm afraid, has never been my forte.
As my amended comment above says - probably written after you wrote this, there is already a movement among those who demanded Nelson Mandela's death - such as Cameron - to now appropriate his legacy for their aims. That is insidious and should be quashed immediately. Please don't let the real honouring of a great man be corrupted by people using kitsch sentimentality to pervert his legacy.
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Sacha, in reply to
Hooton's past record of racist invective
A great person has left us. According to Nicky Hager, Hooten was one of those in the Nats' inner sanctum who resisted Brash's Orewa speech.
In any case, please at least respect the content of his post in the spirit in which it was offered. I'm impressed he chose to share it with us here.
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Sacha, in reply to
There are plenty of people like David Cameron who wore "Hang Mandela" badges" getting into full Uriah Heep mode now
worth challenging, yes
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Sacha, in reply to
now trying to use him to lend gloss to themselves. It's grotesque and insidious and it shouldn't be shielded by sentimentality
For sure. Our current PM seems an useful target for accountability.
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Kracklite, in reply to
"resisted Brash's Orewa speech"
For all of thirty seconds.
I respect the spirit of this post, so I am offended by an overt racist trying to hitch a ride.
Anyway, I'm aware that this could hijack a thread that is dedicated to Nelson Mandela's memory and I'll bow out. You can assume that I acknowledge anything else you say, Sacha and Russel. Good night.
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simon g, in reply to
There are a lot of people who called Nelson Mandela a terrorist and demanded his execution who are now trying to use him to lend gloss to themselves. It’s grotesque and insidious and it shouldn’t be shielded by sentimentality.
As a general point, very true. But your specific target isn't justified.
Try Rick Santorum instead.
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Sacha, in reply to
For all of thirty seconds.
You vs Hager. Not one you want to bet on.
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Kracklite, in reply to
But he didn't resign.
OK, enough, I'm gone.
This is about Nelson Mandela. Forget me, honour him.
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Sacha, in reply to
honour him
yep
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A blast from the past:
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/patu-1983 -
DexterX, in reply to
he was alongside Reagan, Thatcher in the sense of bringing tyranny to an end
I appreciate that you have expressed yourself well, however. I cannot see Reagan and Thatcher alongside Mandela ever. They both cast Mandela as a terrorist for seeking universal suffrage so that all people in South Africa had the right to vote regardless of race.
Mandela would not sit comfortably alongside such ill company; he would be civil but uncomfortable - civil unrest.
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