Hard News: London's Burning
445 Responses
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Russell Brown, in reply to
You know something, I’m have a real problem getting invested in an existential crisis at the moment.
Suit yourself. I agree with Ben (must stop saying that) that we may be seeing a systemic crisis, at least for the West.
I'm more or less blocking out what's happening with sovereign debt and the financial markets right now, because worrying about it would simply be too depressing.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Certainly not. But I did feel like an up-close observer rather than a participant.
I guess a more precise way of saying what I was saying in relation to '100% contagious' would be to say that all of the individuals who make up the crowd will be affected. How that plays out will differ from person to person.
Edit: It's also a far more intense and visceral experience than any gig or sporting event I've been to, before or after - orders of magnitude more so.
I can quite easily disengage from and dispassionately observe a sports crowd or gig crowd. I doubt it would be that easy in any sort of public disorder-type circumstances.
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Just when you thought things had calmed down, the rampage continues...
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
hanging for pinching a monogrammed hankerchief.
But no longer for buying a logoed shirt online. WW2 may be a way back but I'm sure there will be some out there wondering why the All Blacks are beholden to a German Company
Sport eh?
The root of all evil?King Edward II was so troubled by the unruliness of football in London that on April 13, 1314 he issued a proclamation banning it: "Forasmuch as there is great noise in the city caused by hustling over large balls from which many evils may arise which God forbid; we command and forbid, on behalf of the King, on pain of imprisonment, such game to be used in the city in the future."
Apparently they weren't spending enough time practising Archery, oh the irony.
The initial spark that led to riot was the Shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham, just a bricks throw from White Heart Lane, home of "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club", or "Spurs" as they are colloquially known.
Turns out that the well publicised bullet in the Police Radio came from a Police issue gun, which will anger the family.
Thank God Eden Park is in a "Nice Middle Class" area and our Police never shoot anyone. -
Rich Lock, in reply to
I'm more or less blocking out what's happening with sovereign debt and the financial markets right now, because worrying about it would simply be too depressing.
You'll be fine when society collapses: you've got a wind-up radio, remember?
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Sacha, in reply to
I did feel like an up-close observer rather than a participant
journalistic training can do that for you
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
Just when you thought things had calmed down, the rampage continues…
That sort of senseless violence has to be stopped, at any cost. What if there had been a cat in there?
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BenWilson, in reply to
You know something, I’m have a real problem getting invested in an existential crisis at the moment.
Fair enough, I'm finding it equally hard to get too wrought up about riots in London. I find it quite easy to see a bigger context, because there actually is one.
seen from sufficient distance, it says, the corpse and the hacked limbs are not so very terrible.
If you spot any of those in London, be sure to link, with warnings. I'm not taking a long view to avoid spotting the corpses. I'm taking it because global economic collapse concerns me more than looting in London, but I do think they're connected.
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I don't know if this has been linked to here or not, (apologies if it was here that I saw it), but those damn commies at StratFor have a piece on the 'something is happening here but I don't know what it is' thing:
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110808-global-economic-downturn-crisis-political-economy
Beyond the economic troubles, politics does seem to be in trouble.
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Hebe, in reply to
It's also a far more intense and visceral experience than any gig or sporting event I've been to, before or after - orders of magnitude more so.
I can quite easily disengage from and dispassionately observe a sports crowd or gig crowd. I doubt it would be that easy in any sort of public disorder-type circumstancesIsn't the buzz all about power -- gaining it, using it, and coming out on top (even if its only in the form of a new pair of trainers)?
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
If you spot any of those in London, be sure to link,
Not in London but Birmingham.
Police are given fresh powers after three killed in rioting
I have to say that I don't see this as a result of Rioting but just another racially motivated attack, up until now the Riots have lacked any hint of racism. -
BenWilson, in reply to
American friends of mine laugh when I've told them of experiences on London's streets in the past - "those kids'd totally get their asses kicked over here!" - but they may not appreciate the vacuum of public etiquette that a child can sense, and then flood with their own hatred for everything around them.
And neither of them seem to realize that in America, anyone can "pack the nine", making children by far the most dangerous people on the streets.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Isn't the buzz all about power -- gaining it, using it, and coming out on top (even if its only in the form of a new pair of trainers)?
In the situations I found myself in, it wasn't. There may be far more of an element of that in this/these case(s).
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in America, anyone can “pack the nine”
Um, legally, you have to be at least 18 to have a gun in the US, whereas if you can get a license, it's 16 here.
But illegally, you can have anything, and it's probably easier to get an illegal firearm there than here.
To drink drive while packing heat is 21 in the US and 20 here.
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Re: long views 'versus' sensitivity. Are these necessarily mutually exclusive? It seems to me perfectly possible (and even useful) to react to the violence we are seeing at a human level, i.e. with anger, empathy etc, while also attempting to understand it within various historical, economic, social, or even philosophical contexts. There is nothing evasive about either approach. In fact they usefully illuminate each other.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
I'm more or less blocking out what's happening with sovereign debt and the financial markets right now, because worrying about it would simply be too depressing.
Right, sovereign debt is so last month.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
You’ll be fine when society collapses: you’ve got a wind-up radio, remember?
And a wind-up torch now, too. Got it at the Mitre 10 Mega Centre on Sunday. I'm ready.
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BenWilson, in reply to
But illegally, you can have anything, and it's probably easier to get an illegal firearm there than here.
If your aim is to rob people then it's the only kind you'd want. Also, over here you can get a license, but not for gangster weapons. To get MSSA guns you need a bloody good excuse. An especially well organized gang of bank robbers operating in Auckland at the moment don't seem to have them, some of the robbers are only carrying knives. Says a lot to me.
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BenWilson, in reply to
There is nothing evasive about either approach. In fact they usefully illuminate each other.
I'd hope. I take Craig's point that you can look through the other end of the telescope to avoid seeing the carnage sometimes. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't look through it that way sometimes.
<aside>How many people know that when you look through a telescope the wrong way, it can make things seem small and distant unless you put them right up to the eyepiece? Then it works like a really powerful magnifying glass.</aside>
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Steve Reeves, in reply to
That's White HART Lane, deer.
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recordari, in reply to
And a wind-up torch now, too. Got it at the Mitre 10 Mega Centre on Sunday. I'm ready.
Pffft. My wind-up radio has a built in torch. And it's waterproof. Ready? I'm going disaster hunting for the halibut.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
To drink drive while packing heat is 21 in the US and 20 here.
I recall my cousins all travelled with shotguns and perfectly legal as long as they are displayed .Theirs being on the dashboard.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I’d hope. I take Craig’s point that you can look through the other end of the telescope to avoid seeing the carnage sometimes. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look through it that way sometimes.
And I'm minded that I referred rather snippily to Tariq Ali's big-picture musings about the meaning of the riots upthread.
But, as I said, I tend to agree with your analysis. Throw in climate change -- a challenge to which democratic governments in market economies are struggling to rise -- and there's any amount of evidence that things can't continue as they have been.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
<aside>How many people know that when you look through a telescope the wrong way, it can make things seem small and distant unless you put them right up to the eyepiece? Then it works like a really powerful magnifying glass.</aside>
Woah. That's some deep shit right there.
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