Hard News: Go Us
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Angus:
I followed the link and came up with this at No. 21:
Yes, it does appear that Palin’s local pastor preached about an end time when God will judge everyone, even Wasilla, Alaska, and the United States. Duh. This is called the Book of Revelations, and while I don’t believe it personally, I don’t see it as a disqualifier for the hundred million or so Baptists, Methodists, Evangelicals, Episcopalians, Catholics, Assembly of God, Presbyterian, Lutherans (traditional and Missouri Synod), African Methodist, and so on Christians in the US.
Well, two points for Charles Martin. First, nice bit of rhetoric slight-of-hand lumping together hundreds of millions of Christians who definitely don't interpret the Book of Revelations, or anything else, in the same way.
Second, I'll keep calling "bullshit" and "hypocrite" on right-wing evangelicals (and people like Sage) who went nuclear on Jeremiah Wright -- and let's face it, he was one hell of a political cudgel to use to beat Obama over the head with -- but are happy to give Palin a pass, when her own pastor is equally prone to over-heated apocalyptic rhetoric.
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when her own pastor is equally prone to over-heated apocalyptic rhetoric.
I'm still unsure how you can equate the two things. On one hand you have a pastor who makes a pronouncement regarding the end of times, and an egalitarian one at that. On the other, you have a pastor who makes an incendiary political speech about the entanglement of religion with national and international affairs. The former is not newsworthy. The latter is absolutely newsworthy, especially when a candidate for political office is part of the congregation. Does Obama agree with Wright's view as expressed in his sermon? Personally, I'd like to know, I think it's a perfectly legitimate question worth asking. Unfortunately, the whole thing has been condensed to a three second soundbite designed to scare white people, so Obama had to do a Usain Bolt and run like mad in the opposite direction.
Now, Hagee, that's a whole other story.
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I'm still unsure how you can equate the two things. On one hand you have a pastor who makes a pronouncement regarding the end of times, and an egalitarian one at that.
Well, giovanni, I get where you're coming from and you're right as far as you go.
But -- and I'm saying this as a politically conservative Catholic who goes to mass three or four times a week -- Palin doesn't get to have it both ways.
She can't stand up before the GOP faithful and say she's a Bible-believing Christian and then say it's dirty pool when people ask, "well, what exactly does that mean and who would she be seeking spiritual counsel from".
To be blunt about it, she's the standard bearer of people who see no instrumental difference between church (at least their conception of Christianity) and state. I think it's an entirely legitimate and news-worthy area to explore. Especially if Palin believes that the End of Days are imminent, and it's "God's will" that the United States has a role to play in the unfolding of Biblical prophecy.
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I think it's an entirely legitimate and news-worthy area to explore. Especially if Palin believes that the End of Days are imminent, and it's "God's will" that the United States has a role to play in the unfolding of Biblical prophecy.
The thing is: what she herself said is a lot more outrageous than what her pastor said. So let's cut the pastor thing out - it's a lame argument, plus it reminds people of Wright - and go straight for Palin. Which is I'm sure what will happen when and if she gets interviewed in one of the Sunday morning shows.
And if people bring Wright up, let's discuss Hagee.
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Giovanni:
Fair points well made, but I still think it's useful to keep a very close watch on what theo-con politicians and their enablers really believe. I know it's rather abstract in a country like New Zealand where politics, faith (and the over-cosy relationship between the two) operate in a very different social context from the US, but when you have one major political party dominated by people who seriously think the constitutional separation between church and state is a liberal hoax it does matter.
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I might have missed it, but has anyone noted/linked to this letter from a Wasilla local, Anne Kilkenny, on Palin? NPR have picked it up as have many blogs etc including asking if Kilkenny is fr'real or a Democrat-plant.
There's so much to quote, but I couldn't go past this:
Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.
Sound's like she's either lacking competence or integrity.
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including asking if Kilkenny is fr'real or a Democrat-plant.
fr'real it seems:
Why did she do it? Kilkenny told The Daily Journal she wanted to offer people information and her experiences. She does not flatter Palin, but she said she did vote for Palin when she ran for city council.
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She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food.
Go us!
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fr'real it seems
Hey, perhaps Ann Kilkenny should be running for President. She sure seems to have a firmer grip on fiscal conservatism than either McCain or Palin. :)
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And she's got an Irish last name, which gives her an in with the EU.
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Caribou Barbie anyone?
http://www.collegeotr.com/college_otr/sarah_palin_as_caribou_barbie_realized_11282
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And she's got an Irish last name, which gives her an in with the EU.
Practically 'vast foreign policy' experience these days ;)
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Caribou Barbie anyone
Ha! Priceless!
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Palin went presidential and 'pardoned' a turkey at thanksgiving and then was interviewed with turkeys being slauhtered in the background.
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Palin went presidential and 'pardoned' a turkey at thanksgiving and then was interviewed with turkeys being slauhtered in the background.
Thanks Bob. That was completely fucking bizarre.
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Palin went presidential and 'pardoned' a turkey at thanksgiving and then was interviewed with turkeys being slauhtered in the background.
Talking turkey, rather glad I a vegequarian. Was that the decapitation bit or the strip tease?Thanks giving Halloween?
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Thanks Bob. That was completely fucking bizarre.
It makes the mayor from the Simpsons look sensible doesn't it?
If she has a media minder, they need to find another career. Or another politician if she tells them to shut up.
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Russel, I will second what has been said above. You are jumping the shark delving into this.
Your whole social outlook is a womans right to choose. And yet you are such taking a self-righteous attitude. Sullivan is talking crap. Palin is the new VEEP choice. If they did not disclose she had a downs child you would accuse her of hiding the fact. It is a fact of her life. Get over it.
I do not think this is one of the low lights of your blogging career. I have been reading you since the start and I think it IS the lowlight.
Take your hands away from the keyboard.
As a journalist Andrew Sullivan will not let this one go for the simple reason that he still has not seen the evidence
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Whoops. Sorry about that. Pushed the wrong button too early.
I was just going to link to Andrew Sullivan who is still trying to nail down the evidence that Sarah Palin did have a baby.http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/12/a-fourth-pictur.html#more
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I was just going to link to Andrew Sullivan who is still trying to nail down the evidence that Sarah Palin did have a baby.
It's a lunatic conspiracy theory and Sullivan is a tool.
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Well, sorry for saying this Gio, but I think Sullivan's was quite entitled to treat everything Palin had to say with extreme scepticism. What didn't Palin lie about during the campaign?
And while she's still the poster girl of the theo-con nutbars who are claiming (quite literally) that Obama isn't even an American citizen, I think it's entirely fair to keep on her. After all, nobody forced her to use her youngest child as a campaign prop -- and once you go there, it's a little rich to cry foul when the attention becomes politically inconvenient.
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Hey, Giovanni, how did that competition pan out in the end where you were in the top three at predicting the US election results?
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And while she's still the poster girl of the theo-con nutbars who are claiming (quite literally) that Obama isn't even an American citizen, I think it's entirely fair to keep on her.
Another day, another ludicrous moral equivalence. Claiming that somebody isn't an American citizen and claiming that somebody traded a child to save a political career are universes apart. But congrats to the anonymous Democrat who managed to concoct a rumour actually more vile than the ones thrown around by Republicans. That's one hell of an achievement.
Hey, Giovanni, how did that competition pan out in the end where you were in the top three at predicting the US election results?
It's going to take ages to work out I think, there are a lot of recounts going on to work out which scenario eventuates. But if I understood correctly, at best I'd come in second, and there's no second prize. So I'm pretty philosophical about it :-)
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And since the sun's up, another round of pissy name-calling from Giovanni. I said from the beginning that the whole 'Fake BabyMama' thing was ludicruous. But I'd have said the same thing about the not so sotto voice ageism directed at the chap on top of the Republican ticket, which doesn't mean I thought it was out of bounds that he had to face some tough questions about his medical history. Or that both he and Biden ended up releasing medical records -- albiet extremely reluctantly -- that would be nobody's business but theirs in an ideal world.
What is "ludicrous" here, Giovanni, is that Palin herself could have killed this speculation dead. Instantly. Why do you think she didn't do so? If she was that concerned about keeping her children out of the public eye, than (I respectfully submit) Trig Palin wouldn't have been passed around the stage at Denver like a joint at a Grateful Dead concert. While, need I remind people, she was in a bubble avoiding actual questions and only submitting to the most sanitised and anodyne fluff jobs. Even then, her lack of depth and substance was painfully apparent.
But congrats to the anonymous Democrat who managed to concoct a rumour actually more vile than the ones thrown around by Republicans. That's one hell of an achievement.
Yeah, Giovanni... Palin has been accused of being a radical fundamentalist Manchurian candidate who bamboozled the world as he forged his birth certificate, hid evidence that he attended a school for terrorists and "palled around with terrorists". (Palin and her running mate apparently are a bit fuzzy on what socialists actually believe, but that vapid rather than vile.) Who's drawing ludicrous moral equivalences here?
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And since the sun's up, another round of pissy name-calling from Giovanni.
Er, Craig...? Let's be honest here: if they ever made a film about you, they would have to entitle it "The Man Who Calls Bullshit". You might just get some of that verbal sparring coming your way from time to time.
What is "ludicrous" here, Giovanni, is that Palin herself could have killed this speculation dead.
This point was raised by others earlier in the thread, and I really don't get it. Why respond? Why dignify? Although maybe in fact she did, you have to wonder if the timing of the campaign going public on Bristol's pregnancy was meant to kill this thing dead. But of course you can't, even a few sane and generally wonderful individuals in this very forum failed to find their lost marbles when that bit of the puzzle came to light and ventured that perhaps, if Bristol had given birth and ovulated and had sex and conceived in the space of a couple of hours, helped perhaps by a little ripple in the space-time continuum, Trig might still be her daughter.
You cannot disprove these things. It's like asking Nasa to prove that they went to the moon. It can't be done. We have photos of Palin pregnant, we have the testimony of journalists who interviewed her at the time, we have the word of her doctor, plus many equally revealing silences, for the 'story' that Sullivan keeps pushing requires a lot of accomplices, a true vast conspiracy, and do you think it plausible that they all remained silent once Palin became a national figure? Consider this question rhetorical, I really don't want to go another fifteen rounds on this.
Yeah, Giovanni... Palin has been accused of being a radical fundamentalist Manchurian candidate who bamboozled the world as he forged his birth certificate, hid evidence that he attended a school for terrorists and "palled around with terrorists".
None of these things are comparable, to me, if only because they targret the candidate and nobody else. Going after the family is just inexcusable, and there's no amount of eye for an eye that justifies it.
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