Hard News: Doing the Rounds
63 Responses
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Yes, I agree. I can imagine even someone like Key would have a lot to gain by leaking the e-mails, and he did. Typical homicide investigation: He had the motive, access to emails. Does he have an alibi?
If the leaks were 'criminal' then National would be jumping up and down about it, but they're not. Certainly the whole English camp wanted Brash gone and Hager's book saved the Nats from a bloody coup and falling out between its strongest members.
And, Peasant, so long as we are not foolish enough to give any single party more than 45% of the vote then we will always have a means to combat unbridled power.
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Hmm yes true, as long as we have Douglas and ACT as a buffer we should be safe.
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For God's sake - no kidding it's a sensible strategy for Key to not disclose bugger-all about himself in order to vote maximize and minimize potential supporter alienation.
I don't agree with you on this Peasant - I think we agree on other matters however.
I think leaders must state their views on certain issues and this is one of them - he must be able to state his views on critical issues in such a way so that those who don't share his perspective don't feel turned off him. There will always be things about a leader and a party that its supporters don't agree with - its a balance thing - but saying nothing or trying to be all things to all people is no longer an issue when you're vying for PM.
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Kyle, you don't get Rod's game. He knows the Nats want this to go away. Only people like him stand to gain from further publicity of the inner workings of National at the moment.
I think he and ACT stand to gain, but only at the expense of National. I don't think the right-wing parties in NZ have yet figured out coalition politics (the left hasn't always got it right either, but they seemed to have it sorted Labour-Greens-Progressive a couple of elections ago).
The other people that will gain are the other parties. So he might gain something for himself and his party, but he's he's hurting his only coaltion partner. I think he'd be much smarter to shut up because people will keep on remembering just how much of an ACT man Don Brash was.
And, regardless of why he's doing it, he still looks like an idiot. Wild pronoucements about how something has happened when he really has no idea, is possibly (probably I think) going to end up wrong. National have already had computer experts rule out exactly what he's mouthing off about. Sometimes people just need to learn to keep their mouth shut.
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Well put Paul, you are indeed quite right.
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I don't think Hide would accept the kind of National Key is hinting at. Anything that can collapse such a disgusting bunch of socialists would be all right by him. Also, the collapse of the hard right within National is the renaissance of ACT. Perhaps he does get MMP after all.
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I'd have been quite happy for Key to have said "Well, I was 20 years old, living in the halls of residence, drinking beer and enjoying rugby, so, yes, I was pro-Tour. But history shows I was wrong."
Or fashioned a "I was pro-tour because I believe it's not the government's place to interfere in the lawful travel of people who aren't a threat to the state", or "I believe in law and order, and the protesters were breaking the law", or any of the responses I've seen from pro-Tour types that are more sophisticated than "I was pro-Tour because it helped Muldoon get in on the redneck racist, anti-city vote", or the people who were the racist, anti-city vote.
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Well, Russell, if Key had said what you suggest, it takes precisely zero imagination to pick the soundbite he'd be hit over the head with for the rest of his life: "...yes, I was pro-Tour." 'Cause we all know anyone was was pro-Tour was then, is now, and ever shall be a drooling racist don't we?
Step away from the strawman, Craig. It'll give you hayfever.
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Step away from the strawman, Craig. It'll give you hayfever.
Nicely put.
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rodgerd:
I'll actually leave our host to decide what's permissible discourse around here, and suggest you step away from the disingenuous naivete about the soundbite culture that so often passes for political debate in this country. Sorry, but if you think Key wouldn't have the racist card dealt against him with ruthless efficiency by the Labour Party, Tariana Turia etc. if he ever said 'I was pro-Tour in '81' I'd suggest you're either enchantingly naive or spectacularly disingenuous.
And thanks to Russell for bothering to engage with what I wrote rather that trotting out the tedious bad faith evasions when someone is saying something you don't want to hear. It's boring and hardly adds anything useful to debate on any subject.
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Craig, I think the point that rogerd and others have made on this is that Key's being evasive on an issue that many, not all, consider important. Your comments read as if you think he can only lose in such a situation, presumably because he might alienate someone; frankly tough. It is not longer credible for him to only speak on the issues that he might be most comfortable with.
Challenging issues is what leaders have to deal with. By all means, he should state his position cautiously however I think most electors accept that they'll not agree hundred percent with everthing a leader says. If he can't state a position on the Springbok tour without being able to also deal with a critical reaction from some, he's got bugger all chance of ever being a decent leader.
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Well, Paul, you have a point as far as it goes. But I think you, and others, are displaying a certain regard for absolute candor that was conspicuous by its absence when every manufactured 'gaffe' from Don Brash was pounced on with undisguised glee. It's just a little rich to be piling on John Key for being over-cautious under those circumstances.
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I'm not advocating absolute candor, I'm not so naive as to think the electorate could tolerate it after nigh on twenty years of skim milk-fed, lite, low-cal, water-filtered spin - we've all become content intolerant... and fair enough to note that Key will be wary of the fate that befell Brash... but, issues like the Springbok tour are real litmus test issues (off the top of my head I can think of only a handful) where he has to have a clear view even if it is expressed in moderate terms.
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