Hard News: Chaos in Kingsland
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It's fun to smoke marijuana!
/pedant mode on/
'It's fun to smoke marijuana! was a 'Queen' accusation, not Black Sabbath.
It was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Priest#Subliminal_message_trial|Judas Priest]] who were the Heavy Metal band accused of satanic backmasking, not Black Sabbath.
Turn me on, dead man
/pedant mode off/
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'It's fun to smoke marijuana! was a 'Queen' accusation, not Black Sabbath.
Yeah, that was me who got Black Sabbath wrong. I conflated Led Zeppelin & the fuss over Stairway to Heaven with Judas Priest and satanic warblings.
Actually, that was an interesting link - the bit about Lennon and others using pieces of music (not words) played backwards because they sound better? That can work in visual composition too - ie: reversing images, as happens in printmaking. It happened to me once when I got a B&W film developed and the photos were great, but somehow not quite what I expected. I realised that shots I'd framed with an object on the left had printed with the object on the right - they'd developed the other side of the film. But most of them were better compositions.
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For those interested, there's a good doco about the whole Judas Priest backwards drama called "Dream Deceivers". The song in question apparently had "shoot! shoot!" running backwards. I don't think Black Sabbath had one but Ozzy solo got pinged for a forwards message -- a song called "Suicide Solution", I think.
The other day Steven Price had a link to a site -- I'm too lazy to look it up -- where there are MP3s of the forwards and backwards versions of songs. I heard the "Here's to my sweet Satan" in Stairway to Heaven as "Here's to you, Clayton". Couldn't detect anything in Hotel California. Too scared to listen to the Britney Spears. It seems ludicrous but the anxiety around backward masking came out of 80s fear about Satanic conspiracies: if those Satanists think there is some power in saying the Lord's Prayer backwards, then reversed speech would also have some effect ...
As for Bain, I definitely thought I heard a "pr" sound.
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/quote>@mark: don't we usually talk about being dead as a continuous state.
I think people avoid any sentence construction that uses "were dead" because it raises the question "what are they now?</quote>
Yes, sorry Ben, I wasn't clear. technically in all cases we describe being dead in the simple present, i.e. referring to facts, regular action and also tellingly; scheduled future events
1. I am gay
2. I play football
3. you're plane leaves tomorrow 6pm.In this case the clause is confused in that 'be' is a non continuous verb necessitating the possible attribution of continuous meanings to a simple present useage. So ultimately I may have taken things a little far in ascribing a continuous sense to the tense..
but the issue is not the the first;
Bain: They're all dead
nor the second;
Bain: They're all dead.
but the connected;
I came home and they're all dead.
@ Steve
"I came home and they were dead" is a contraction of
"when I came home, they were dead"but even that is a large step to make, why not
"I came home and then they were all dead"?
Basically, does "when I came home, they were dead"mean
"when I came home they were already dead"
or
"when i came home they were ready to be dead"?
Drawing on the 'future scheduled even't use of simple present tense,(based on the inconclusiveness of his 'they're)ie
"When I get home, you're dead bucko!"
Also considering it's not clear whether he used simple present or simple past, we're left with a whole swathe of possible meanings;
1 I came home and they were all already dead
2 I came home and they are all dead now
3 I came home and they were all dying
4 I came home and they are dying
and most likely as intended and as you state Steve
5 I came home, and i saw "they are all dead!"
compared to
1 i came home and the phone rang
2 I came home and the phone was ringing
3 I came home and the phone rings* (used)
4 I came home and the phone is ringing
Essentially, a boredom killer.
as Cecelia said;
His syntax was mildly confused when he spoke after the trial too. The words don't come out the right way for some of us when we're put on the spot.
adult with a paper run speaks volumes.
I'm very much on the same page as you Steve with
A last ditch attempt to justify the the whole sorry episode?
I am not going to go either way in terms of Bains guilt or innocence, I'll leave that to the jury who spent a considerable amount of time listening to both sides of the argument.
However, if Bain were the culprit he has already done 13 years and "paid his debt to society" and is unlikely to kill his family again.I'll admit I laughed at that last quote, black as it is.
I'm interested by what you're saying Carol, and am going to find out more, the coverage of this trial has been the most extensive that I can recall, but I hadn't thought much around that.
I would be asserting, that there would be no need to tell the emergency services about having arrived home, just that there was a problem with dead people needing urgent remedying.
Nicely put Stephen.
Russell, Leo sounds like the man, must be cool having in house experts.
<quote>And now I hear it too, which is actually something of a relief.</relief>
I definitely feel more peace of mind assuming the jury got it right, and it pains me a great deal to even touch on the possibility that Joe Karam could be the anti-christ.
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Satanists think there is some power in saying the Lord's Prayer backwards, then reversed speech would also have some effect ...
What utter rot. Hang on, I'll try it in front of a mirror and see if I sprout horns and a tail.
I've always meant to delve into Aleister Crowley and the Golden Dawn though, I did hunt out some stuff years ago, but buggered if I can remember what it amounted to now. I suspect, not much.
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Hey Mark. Not trying to be over reductive or anything but I think I can reduce your analysis to a single word,
Bollocks.
And that's a copyright thing.
Init, on the other hand is a proposition.
:-) (supposed to be big cheesy grin with red eyes and a burp) -
Kerry, basically Crowley was into sex, drugs, sex, power games & sex...although he did venture into some quite interesting selfcontrol areas. His relationship with The Golden Dawn became fraught & feudful (they still exist in an attenuated etiolated fashion). "Do what you will be the whole of the Law" was supposed to have the amendation of "under Love" -dicey stuff, either way. Many years since I looked at this stuff, and Wiki is probably much more informative-
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Keri.
The Crowley thing.
Any intelectual will, at some point, entertain the concept that the mind can create anything. Crowley, like others, entertained the posibility that the mind, being the source of preception, can invoke a realisation of the cosmic conciousness.
As aproponent of the concept of magical realism you surely accept that what we perceive as our understanding of him is abstract at best. Yes? -
Sorry, I meant Islander.
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The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn had a significant presence in Havelock North in the early decades of the 20th century although didn't seem to have any sinister undertones. Robert Felkin was asked to come to Hawkes Bay by local landholders and citizens (assorted Quakers/Freemasons/spiritualists/theosophists/early new-agey types etc) and established Whare Ra at Havelock North. This Chapman-Taylor house is still there and is mentioned in Judy Siers' book on Chapman-Taylor.
Havelock North has a bit of a history of this type of thing and was later the centre of NZ's first new-agey movement, the School of Radiant Living, from the 1940s. I researched this movement a few years ago. One interesting aspect is the involvement of Sir Ed Hillary's family - his parents were founders of the Auckland School.
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Which reminds me. Does anyone know what the "Higher Thought Temple" up by the red spikey thing is about?.
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Official byelection results page here. Going exactly as expected with a third of votes counted. I hear there's a rugby game on tonight.
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Aha! That's where I've made the connection in the past - with Havelock North and Whare Ra. Some ceramic tilework that looks pretty spacey in that house I recall. The Theosophy thing was quite strong in HN, all New Age before anyone else.
The Golden Dawn also had something to do with the design of some Tarot cards, both the Rider pack and Crowley's pack. It's all related, isn't it? Theosophy, Golden Dawn, Qabalah? Just that Crowley was off on his own little trip as well.
And I do recall that Jimmy Page was into Crowley etc. -
But TV3's byelection page also calculates the %s.
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And I do recall that Jimmy Page was into Crowley etc.
Damn, I used to lke Crowley. Do you think Crowley gave Jimmy those deamonic guitar solo's?.
Or not?. -
Re Mt Albert: I believe that is what they call a trouncing.
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Steve B - I dont agree with/ apprehend a 'cosmic consiousness', and, while critics have labelled some of what I write "magical realism", I dont. It's just plain old fantasy to me. Crowley's life is pretty well known: I understand him through his biography & his own writings (and through the various 'histories' (some read like hystericies) of Golden Dawn & OTT et al...
Hilary - I still have material from "The Heralds of the New Age" (around in the early 1960s and allied with both Radiant Living & Theosophy.) And Kerry - still have my Waite/Rider tarot cards! Used to sort of believe in that stuff - until I realised I could pick up all kinds of cues (body/subvocal etc.) and feed stuff back-
looks like Shearer in a walkover eh?
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Final counts 63%, 17%, 12%, 4% and no surprises.
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Just had a check through Wikipedia of all this - has pretty good information on the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Robert Felkin, the Havelock Work (the group that invited Felkin to NZ), theosophy etc. Theosophy has a strong NZ history - Thomas Edmond of baking powder fame was a significant philanthropist theosophist in 1920s Christchurch. That rising sun symbol was widely used by adherents. I think there are Rosicrucians in NZ currently - another offshoot. All related philosophically one way or another, and mostly very benign. In fact Benjamin Creme of the current 'Sign of Hope' PAS Banner, comes out of the same tradition - he's in Wikipedia too.
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Final counts 63%, 17%, 12%, 4% and no surprises.
What was the turnout?
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I like the self-awareness of some of the smaller lists. The People's Choice candidate received five votes.
In terms of the bigger numbers, Shearer winning by 9k is pretty significant, given that Clark had won by 10k but there was no Greens high-profile candidate to contend with. And she was Helen Freaking Clark.
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Islander - should you ever want to part with your material, the Beaglehole Room at Victoria University is building up a significant collection of material on the School of Radiant Living and related artefacts and archives.
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Stash it in the Beaglehole.
Marvellous name, but.
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Hilary - that is very interesting, thank you! While all my Maori & Polynesian stuff is going into a family trust, I'd be very happy to bequeath the "Heralds of the New Age" matter to VU (if they want an awe-ful lot of stuff about ordinary & outre religion, I've got a trailerload of it...)
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Carig - about 21,000, which is a smaller turnout than 2008 - so that is actually a bigger win than Helen's. Official results here
Islander - I'll mention it to the librarian at the Beaglehole Room (it's a specialist part of the VUW libary)
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