But no sooner had he talked about cutting back on social, economic and "cultural community outcomes" than he was back-tracking, quick to say public libraries were safe – because his mum would never cook him a hot meal again if he had them axed.

...

Last November,…

Personally I think Anderton, like Dunne, is a good argument for a reverse threshold.

I think Rodney's a far better one, personally. Anderton is in, all on his lonesome, as the MP for Wigram. He'd be there with or without MMP. Roy, Douglas, Boscawen and Garrett, on the other hand,…

I think your example of…

Although I am surprised at how many unreconstructed leftists seem to regard it as a victory for the proletariat over the urban bourgeois ...

I'd ask you to elaborate, but I'm nearly out of migraine meds. Sounds too much like one of Chris Trotter's "courageous corruption" brain bleeds for my…

On a slightly more cheerful note, who'd rather be in Mount Albert than Tehran right now? I know its just not about us, but its a reminder how we take free, fair and credible elections (and no riots in the streets afterwards) for granted.

I thought something similar myself. Juan…

More than 300 elite Scotland Yard detectives are suspected of defrauding the taxpayer of millions of pounds by abusing their corporate credit…

You know I wasn't saying that.

Sorry, you're quite right. But Sacha did go there, and it got my hackles up.

It was just an odd line of argument.

OK, we're probably going to have to agree to disgaree with that. I just thought it was peculiar of Sacha to…

I'd be on a hiding to nothing to expect anyone to agree with me on anything around here. I don't appreciate being accused of arguing in bad faith, however, and don't see why anyone should.

You know I wasn't saying that. It was just an odd line of argument.

You are perfectly entitled, but don't expect anyone to join in that bizarre line of argument.

I'd be on a hiding to nothing to expect anyone to agree with me on anything around here. I don't appreciate being accused of arguing in bad faith, however, and don't see why anyone…

I don't recall Anderton or Peters doing anything significant that they and Labour had not first told the public about and even taken to an election explicitly.

Some would suggest the EFA (NZF had a specific policy of not making major changes to to electoral law without public support).

I…

Well, Jackie, I think I'm perfectly entitled to raise an eyebrow at an unelected and unaccountable newspaper editorial writer pontificating on the "legitimacy" of people you might not like, but who actually have to submit to the will of electors every three years,

You are perfectly entitled, but don't expect…

Russell, how did your son enjoy his first voting experience?

It was very cool. I'll blog it today.

RAPT

and

FAZE

That's all a mandate means to me – some form of relevant delegated permission from voters, not a three yearly blank cheque nor…

There is absolutely no mandate for that change and they are trying to ram it through undemocratically now – as the Herald editorial and other journos have pointed out since Rodney's pet Cabinet paper was released.

Mandate? This isn't Imperial China; a mandate in New Zealand is a majority in…

There is considerable irony in the fact that Mark Thomas was Lee's campaign manager. History never repeats, but it sure as hell echos.

Was he? Really. I didn't know that. Hell!

It's the media's job to call attention to such abuses of governance. Trying to treat a newspaper the same as a political party is just farcical, no matter how much you may dislike what they're drawing attention to.

The real farce here is that I'm apparently expected to treat the…

Craig, surely you can grasp the basic injustice in a party with a few percent of the vote wagging the governing dog?

Sacha: I've grasped that first past the post died a very slow death a long time ago. A very large chunk of the commentariat really need to pick…

I can't help but recall what Mark Thomas went through in 1996 ~ he was a far more experienced but still new candidate, a far smarter operator who still got totally stuffed by the conveniences of the day. If you could swap them but, Thomas has a lot more to…

At the last election, voters were not told that National would buddy up with Act to rip the guts out of local government, were they? There is absolutely…

Oooh, double high dudgeon, Craig. Fabulous.

Well, Jackie, I think I'm perfectly entitled to raise an eyebrow at an unelected and unaccountable newspaper editorial writer pontificating on the "legitimacy" of people you might not like, but who actually have to submit to the will of electors every three years,

Just…

Likewise. She didn't run a good campaign but I suspect she's a better MP than this byelection revealed.

Well I don't think she is a better MP but I do believe the leaders should support their candidates on the night.I think her campaign was a disaster because of the non…

Craig, are you saying Baiter is "non-partisan" or Garner is?

Garner's an equal opportunity offender when it comes to over-sexed up 'gotcha' stories.

And in related news, a Herald editorial correctly assesses the legitimate influence of a minor player

So, could you remind me exactly what electoral mandate the eHerald…

Craig, are you saying Baiter is "non-partisan" or Garner is?

Garner's an equal opportunity offender when it comes to over-sexed up 'gotcha' stories.

And in related news, a Herald editorial correctly assesses the legitimate influence of a minor player

So, could you remind me exactly what electoral mandate the editorial…

Not Thursday, Wednesday.
On Thursday I was surrounded by wonderful people. :-)

You did have me wondering ...

The Act Party is in Parliament with the support of fewer than three in 100 New Zealanders. The unfettered enthusiasm with which Hide is pursuing his radical agenda is out of all proportion to his…

And that's not a bad piece of renaming for a show that often resembles consensual torture.

Mr Baiter at his insightful best.

Sure is, because it seems rather obvious to me that while the likes of Duncan Garner are thick as pig shit as nowhere near as useful, he's a thoroughly non-partisan boob. And after finally forcing myself to sit through a whole Q&A, I think I'll…

Our show was, as you might expect, a quieter affair, but I think we brought out some very interesting stuff on the Bain case...

Caught it last night, Russell – but wondering how you got from a not guilty verdict to the sweeping observation that the jury had decided that…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdwPYuC5Y4k

Those statements about internal polling were made on camera tonight after victory was sealed. Isn't that a bit too late to "motivate activists"?

No, but since Goff isn't a Cylon I wouldn't blame him for maximising the yield of nose-moisturing gloat. :)

You didn't need to be in the inner…

Politicians aren't entirely candid about their internal polling

Those statements about internal polling were made on camera tonight after victory was sealed.…

And there are plenty of occasions when I wouldn't bet the house on "most political commentators" being within spitting distance…

Still, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good defense.

Sacha: For some strange reason, I'm not actually privy to Labour's internal polling or anything else to do with the campaign and I have to see interviews before I have any fraking idea what they're about.…

anyone who seriously expects me to believe National could have won it is going to be asked to take a piss test.

Like most political commentators at the beginning of the campaign a couple of months ago, then. Or like Goff and Shearer tonight acknowledging their own internal polling at…

Bollocks.

exactly

because the transcript is wrong.

he didn't say

"I came home and they're all dead"

he said

"I came home and they were all dead"

It was National's to lose, and they surely did lose it.

You really believe that? Sorry, but while Lee's campaign was (to be polite) seriously deficient in all kinds of ways let's not start believing the pre-match hype (hey, why should Garner and Clark have all the strained sports analogies?)…

Her and Garner both reckon Lee's political career is over,

Couldn't happen to a nicer suburb-ist, says I. Good riddance to bad rubbish, really, though she was certainly, err, assisted by the motorway issue (where it's going, not who it's going to keep away :P ). If that's one of…

(It's so difficult sorting out sides/angles in this dodecahedron-)

(I always try to convince him that it's best seen in December, around eleven pm when it's warm, but he doesn't want a bar of it.)

Anything's possible. We live in unusual times. Did you see that star over Mt Victoria last night?

No, although soon my eldest is going to start insisting that we get up at five to spot Matariki and I'm going to become painfully acquainted with the sky over Mt Victoria. I'm…

Giovanni – the Wallabies could all be incubating swine flu and might collapse at half time, but they are winning at the moment, sorry.

Surely that means that now Italy is going to beat Australia, though, right?

Anything's possible. We live in unusual times. Did you see that star over Mt Victoria last night?

Go Italia! (or whatever the team name is.)

Do you think Crowley gave Jimmy those deamonic guitar solo's?.
Or not?.

i dunno about Jimmy channelling Crowley, but he bought Crowley's old house on the banks of Loch Ness and apparently...

Since Crowley had lived there, it had been the site of a notorious swindle involving many of the…

Sorry, just had to mention that as I know some misguided males who think sport is more important than politics.

Yes, we understand. Surely that means that now Italy is going to beat Australia, though, right?

Stash it in the Beaglehole

when they've looted the Moneybin.

Steve B – I don't agree with/ apprehend a 'cosmic consciousness', and, while critics have labelled some of what I write "magical realism", I don't. It's just plain old fantasy to me.

Sorry I' but I thought you coined the term "magical realism" yourself.
The point I was making was…

Islander – I'll mention it to the librarian at the Beaglehole Room (it's a specialist part of the VUW libary)

Marvellous name, but.

In terms of the bigger numbers, Shearer winning by 9k is pretty significant, given that Clark had won by 10k but there was no Greens high-profile candidate to contend with. And she was…

Final counts 63%, 17%, 12%, 4% and no surprises.

What was the turnout?

And I do recall that Jimmy Page was into Crowley etc.

Damn, I used to lke Crowley. Do you think Crowley gave Jimmy those deamonic guitar solo's?.
Or not?.

The Golden Dawn also had something to…

Satanists think there is some power in saying the Lord's Prayer backwards, then reversed speech would also have some effect ...

What utter rot. Hang on, I'll try it in front of a mirror and see if I sprout horns and a tail.

I've always meant to delve into Aleister…

I think people avoid any sentence construction that uses "were dead" because it raises the question "what are they now?

Yes, sorry Ben, I wasn't clear. technically in all cases we describe being dead in the simple present,…

'It's fun to smoke marijuana! was a 'Queen' accusation, not Black Sabbath.

Yeah, that was me who got Black Sabbath wrong. I conflated Led Zeppelin & the fuss over Stairway to Heaven with Judas Priest and satanic warblings.

Actually, that was an interesting link – the bit about Lennon and others…

It's fun to smoke marijuana!

/pedant mode on/

'It's fun to smoke marijuana! was a 'Queen' accusation, not Black Sabbath.

It was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Priest#Subliminal_message_trial|Judas Priest]] who were the Heavy Metal band accused of satanic backmasking, not Black Sabbath.

Turn me on, dead man

/pedant mode off/

Much as I don't like to make assumptions we can only assume the facts behind this particular scenerio.

Steve, there aren't too many assumptions here. The facts are that Bain said clearly and repeatedly in his 111 call that the family were 'all dead' — but subsequently told police that…

Please make sure you shower and brush your hair before going to the Post Office.

Rofllenui. Bugger, now I'm dirty again.

Damn not refreshing before posting.

Yes, Sacha. Please make sure you shower and brush your hair before going to the Post Office.
Thank you.

I just played it to Leo, who processes sound differently to most of us, and has very acute hearing.

Unprompted, he heard "I can't" and a hard "k" sound.

So it could even have been "I can't think" or "I can't... feel sick". There are numerous potential interpretations, and only…

If he really did "shoot the prick" where was his massive groin injury?

On a sports thread somewhere.

I just played it to Leo, who processes sound differently to most of us, and has very acute hearing.

As an aside but food for thought, my relatively new experience of fits has enlightened me of my inability to speak properly whilst having one and I am conscious and try…

I suspect the legal beagles got it right in their arguments around admissibility. It could be either…

Unprompted, he heard "I can't" and a hard "k" sound.

Then given the choice between "I can't breathe" and "I shot the prick" — he went for "I can't breathe".

Other…

I am clearly very suggestible.
When I first listened to the tape, having been prompted to hear "I shot the prick", that's exactly what I heard. Now, having read the comments here, I unmistakably hear "I cannot breathe."

I'm trying to hear "I can't breathe," but I just can't. I'm…

I'm kind of baffled they even thought they could get that admitted.

A last ditch attempt to justify the the whole sorry episode?
I am not going to go either way in terms of Bains guilt or innocence, I'll leave that to the jury who spent a considerable amount of time…

When I first listened to the tape, having been prompted to hear "I shot the prick", that's exactly what I heard. Now, having read the comments here, I unmistakably hear "I cannot breathe."

His syntax was mildly confused when he spoke after the trial too.

You mean Joe Karam lets him open his mouth? :)

It's incredibly subjective.

Wishful hearing at best. I'm kind of baffled they even thought they could get that admitted.

And if you think he said "I shot the prick" you think he is guilty of at least one murder.…

"I…

We're looking at Supercity arguments in the media.

Meanwhile, another forum full of people who hear either one thing or another.

Am more concerned for instance with the looming submission deadline about Auckland governance changes likely to affect this country's…

Even despite the prompting, the first thing I heard was breathe, not prick.

Fascinating. I hear "prick", spoken sharply, and clearer than the rest of it.

I'd been led to believe the words were: "I shot the prick, I shot", but I didn't hear that. I heard "I shot that…

Even despite the prompting, the first thing I heard was breathe, not prick.

yes, quite clearly

(Ur, sometimes. One of the reasons I cannot stand living in cities is because I have abnormally good hearing (comes with being extremely shortsighted I suspect.) I cannot 'tune-out' the noise surround', but I can listen & decipher stuff over ambient noise. I've…

Told you before about listenin' to Black Sabbath backwards ... and leave those bloody chickens alone!

It's fun to smoke marijuana!

If you play the tape backwards you can clearly hear him say.
"I fubin' done it didn' I, I'd fuckin' do it agen, woodn' I"
And then the ambulance officer says,
"?uoy pleh I nac ,ecnalubmA"

Told you before about listenin' to Black Sabbath backwards ... and leave those bloody…

I guess I could construe it as "I…

I found that all a bit weird last night watching/listening to it several times.

I was listening to the car radio when they played it – I'd been singing "Lalalalalalla, i can't hear you!" – so i didn't know what anyone else thought it said. all i got was "I...car…

If only he'd stuck to poking his rod into a goldfish pond rather than the economy....

So many images come to mind... out damn spot!

The Gnome Party has a certain ring to it.

I dunno, we already had the Rogergnomes and look where that got us...

If only he'd stuck to poking his rod into a goldfish pond rather than the economy....

The Gnome Party has a certain ring to it.

I dunno, we already had the Rogergnomes and look where that got us...

However, a few listenings later I was told that people who had studied it came down on…

pareidolia

Word. Of. The. Year.

extra points to the man for knowing it and using correctly.

Bit laissez faire on the whole but that should position them comfortably in what has become the centre.

I would rather have a garden gnome in Parliament than Peter Dunne.

Also, the Auckland crowd was way groovier than the Wellington one.

Russell having a Tui moment !

What I don't understand is why the Crown/Defense never posited the possibility that Robin killed the family, David came home from his newspaper round, and found Robin in the lounge, struggled with him, took the rifle and killed Robin.

Shhh, don't make things complicated.

And he said "I killed the…

It's interesting how a crappy washing machine going for a reserve of a dollar looks like selling for about $200 just because the notice was funny.

I mean, I got all the humor out of the ad and I didn't pay a thing. (Well, unless I lose a dollar to…

Elias CJ, Blanchard and Wilson JJ say that the evidence fails to meet the low threshold of relevance because it cannot reasonably tend to prove or disprove whether or not there was an admission.

McGrath and…

An aging man had a full bladder, NO evidence of any struggles (and 14yrold Stephen fought very hard for his life0 and – an implausible scenario for a suicide in the view of 2 experts.

There's motive, this explains a lot of things, like why David…

I note that David Farrar didn't manage much of a live blog:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/mt_albert_backbenches.html

Um, yes... I'm glad you all had a good time, but (partner) David and I decided it wasn't worth recording — couldn't hear shit.

I mean, I got all the humor out of the ad and I didn't pay a thing. (Well, unless I lose a dollar to…

I shot the prick

It was actually Cullen you could hear in the background while Bain was making the 111 call.

That one Trademe listing is better than any NZ comedy I've seen on TV – probably ever. Someone sign him/her!

Seconded.

The Q & A is funny too...

Q: lmao,legend!! :)

A: I'm glad you thought it was funny, I nearly died man.

We have the "new" transcript the court did not allow.Right.

FFS is there an opportunity to hear the tape without exclusions?

where he hid Hoffa's body.

Everyone knows where that is, it's in Shergar's stable. Right next to Lord Lucan.

In Area 51. With Elvis as the stableboy.

And they all go sailing on the Marie Celeste at weekends.

In the Bermuda triangle

where he hid Hoffa's body.

Everyone knows where that is, it's in Shergar's stable. Right next to Lord Lucan.

In Area 51. With Elvis as the stableboy.

And they all go sailing on the Marie Celeste at weekends.

I shot the prick

but I didn't shoot the testicles

I shot the prick

Worst Bob Marley cover ever.

Which seems a little like tampering with evidence to me ...

While I think it is usually a good idea for a jury to decide upon the relevance of various pieces of evidence. If they get exposed to interpretations, pareidolia can be extremely convincing.

You can't ask a jury to…

couldn't help myself, reading over your shoulder

I'm just glad I wasn't standing next to Whaleoil – I might have felt compelled to tipped my beer over him – by accident of course :)

Sure it wasn't, Rochelle! Sorry – couldn't help myself, reading over your shoulder

It was Rochelle's laptop.

I note that David Farrar didn't manage much of a live blog:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/mt_albert_backbenches.html

I shot the prick

The t-shirt screen printers will be doing overtime on that one...

A free cup of tea at a candidate meeting doesn't really amount to that.

...where he hid Hoffa's body.

Everyone knows where that is, it's in Shergar's stable. Right next to Lord Lucan.

Which seems a little like tampering with evidence to me ...

Yes it does, but it's "court approved" tampering...

Though it definitely wasn't MY pink laptop!

Sure it wasn't, Rochelle! Sorry – couldn't help myself, reading over your shoulder!

We (luckily) made it to The Neighbourhood bar early -8ish? & it was already packed. Got a spot by the bar next to the blogger from The Standard. Loads of fun, although the catcalls, cheers & boos made a lot of the responses hard to hear.

LOL. That would have been me.…

This second person is the actual killer.

Wait, is there a grassy knoll near the house? Oh, nevermind.

You're not listening hard enough. Just towards the end you can also hear where he hid Hoffa's body.

I changed the post upon releasing that the part in question was excised from what the jury heard.

Which seems a little like tampering with evidence to me ...