Hard News: Changing Times
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You're onto a real winner with that line Russ though i think you do your best writing when wound up. I love seeing that fire coming through and exposing the soft underbelly :)
This is at the level of trolling and I'm not going to bother with it any more.
But I'm happy to discuss specific things like:
or lets look at Rhian Sheehan. i'd love to see his latest work performed live in welli next month. the album for which hasnt got a shit show of getting radio play but is so deserving of complementary music vid funding but wont because it doesnt meet the criteria.
I'd love to see it too. (here's the poster for anyone wondering).
He's had video funding before. And he's done quite well from NZ On Air in other ways -- he wrote the soundtrack music to The Cult last year. I don't know if he's even applied for a grant this time. He's not really a commercial broadcasting artist.
But here's something I think NZ On Air should look at, and should have looked at around the turn of the century when Kog Transmissions at its peak (Chris Chetland and Brendan used to bang heads quite a bit about funding rules).
Soundtrack, synchronisation and licensing revenue gets more important every year -- to the point where cinematic soundtracks are what Rhian Sheehan does for a job. The same is true to some extent about Sean Donnelly and Don McGlashan. In Rhian's case it's an export business.
I don't know how this would sit with the Broadcasting Act as it stands, but it makes sense to me for a the broadcast funding agency to support the development of artists whose work we hear in this way -- even when we hear that work in advertisements. That would have been an intelligent place to go with Kog.
Ironically, there is actually a service with Trade and Enterprise NZ that helps with that -- compiling and distributing samplers for sync work. That's how Chris Knox's 'It's Love' got the Heineken ad in the US.
But if you're looking at Rhian's non-commercial work, I don't think NZOA is the agency to deliver support for that. It just ain't. And maybe that's okay -- Mikee Tucker has certainly done his usual sterling job of pulling in sponsorship for the Wellington performance.
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But if you're looking at Rhian's non-commercial work, I don't think NZOA is the agency to deliver support for that. It just ain't. And maybe that's okay
Why on earth not? The mandate is simply to put more New Zealand work on Air. They've given grants to 100s of recipients without a product to sell or a gig lined up.
Surely the whole reason these commie groups exist is because very little New Zealand music is commercially viable in the strictest sense.
what Rhian Sheehan does for a job. The same is true to some extent about Sean Donnelly and Don McGlashan. In Rhian's case it's an export business.
I don't know how this would sit with the Broadcasting Act as it stands, but it makes sense to me for a the broadcast funding agency to support the development of artists whose work we hear in this way
why? These artists have found their niche in the market, they're making a living, why should the government start developing more artists to compete against them? Did they require the development you're proposing to get where they are?
Why not just take the bureaucratic fine print and interference out of our faces and stop trying to meddle in spheres you make no direct contribution to? (heated words, not specifically aimed at you Russell). But try this show on. Public Address is successful, the government should offer grants to developers to produce similar websites to compete against you.
etc etc -
this thread has turned into a hammer which pounds on one side of my head then the other, ad infinitum.
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Sorry. Maybe I should stop focusing on us manifold failures and rejects and join in the celebration of the handful of successes. We are simply collateral damage. an inconvenient byproduct of the system.
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latest work performed live in welli next month
Rhian Sheehan talked to Kim Hill this morning (streaming, 31 mins) about the show, the album and mainly music in general. Can't remember if the subject of funding came up - maybe somewhere towards the end?
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Alone, Pope Julius II pratonized some of the greatest decorative art in known history. Just one man. Sure he had helpers...
ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...
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ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...
Don't patronize me.
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Why on earth not? The mandate is simply to put more New Zealand work on Air.
Which involves it being, y'know, broadcast.
why? These artists have found their niche in the market, they're making a living, why should the government start developing more artists to compete against them? Did they require the development you're proposing to get where they are?
Why not just take the bureaucratic fine print and interference out of our faces and stop trying to meddle in spheres you make no direct contribution to? (heated words, not specifically aimed at you Russell). But try this show on. Public Address is successful, the government should offer grants to developers to produce similar websites to compete against you.
etc etcI do not disagree with you, and I tried to point out what a minefield funding online content is, upthread.
I didn't create the problem: which is the expectation of many people that NZOA should behave as a music development agency when it's a broadcast funding agency.
But addressing the sync/licensing market would have provided at least a rationale for supporting the Kog artists -- and it might even have had a significant economic benefit. It does seem kind of odd that Tradenz compiles a sampler CD to pitch to foreign ad agencies, but there is (as far as I know) no equivalent here. And yet there's the Kiwi Hit Disc for radio. Do you see what I'm saying?
Frankly, I think Rhian seems to be doing fine for himself, but I don't think he'd object to some help pitching his work, and neither would any of the others I mentioned.
The whole point of this thread was to discuss better ways to use the funding pool, which isn't going to get any bigger. Frankly, I'm a bit sick of being shot at for trying to discuss the reality.
If you have a better idea, including shutting the whole thing down, feel free to discuss. But please get off my ass.
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Sorry. Maybe I should stop focusing on us manifold failures and rejects and join in the celebration of the handful of successes.
Good on you. When the kind of invective in evidence here is of the same tone as hopelessly inadequate dads employ against the family court, you have to wonder what it is about the music biz that spawns so many embittered "failures and rejects". I had thought that Robbery was the sole example.
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ad infinitum
could be worse #copywrong
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ya could say we are off our Med(ici)s...
Don't patronize me.
Grow a sense of humour.
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Um Russell? The Medici family were famous for what (among other things?)
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haha, russell? come on man, get the joke.
Oh, okay. Sorry. I get it now. That is funny. I didn't pick it up over the pounding noise in my head.
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That is funny
Fair dos, it wasn't high class. and I'll get off your ass. I really had no intention of getting on your ass. It's certainly not personal. Despite my previous few posts, I'm pretty easy either way with NZOA, it's a little more transparent than the way things are handled here. Mainly I just thought Robbie looked a bit lonely writing 75% of posts per page ; )
It does seem kind of odd that Tradenz compiles a sampler CD to pitch to foreign ad agencies, but there is (as far as I know) no equivalent here. And yet there's the Kiwi Hit Disc for radio. Do you see what I'm saying?
Yes, I do.
Personally, I'm a bit of a fan of shutting the whole thing down, level playing field and all that. But I see a certain self absorbed gratification that comes from being on the outer with things like this, my main feeling is that life is short and the easiest way to get around these problems is by artists putting their own money where their mouths are.
accountability is never a bad thing IMHO.
it is about the music biz that spawns so many embittered "failures and rejects". I had thought that Robbery was the sole example.
I'd previously thought Jody Lloyd was the sole example, I have no stake in all this. Just thinking of the kids....
This discussion comes around like clockwork every year, might as well enjoy it. Although it gets harder and harder to come up with new angles...
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the sole example
spookily synchronous posting, Joe
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spookily synchronous posting, Joe
Muskateers? Ghostbusters, Ninja Turtles? John, Paul, George and Ringo? Jerry, George, Elaine and Kramer? Leonard, Howard, Sheldon and Rajesh? Mount Rushmore.
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Choice post at the top of the page Russell so to follow up, heres an idea i've had for a while but seeing as how you're contributing now so will i.
Heres the NZon Air video funding criteria.
http://www.kiwihits.co.nz/funding/details/video
Objective
To fund music videos for broadcast on music television shows and music television channels and in turn increase the number of local songs played on commercial radio.
Now essentially I'm a visual guy. I've art directed music vids, commercials, short films, tv doco segments so i want to see vids that complement songs and not just shitty radio friendly popsongs. There is an outlet on air for videos that dont fit the criteria but fall within the scope of the NZoA mandate, that being specialist shows and themed segments for electronica, hiphop, metal etc not just the top 40 songs that are getting catered for.
For the last 10 years our visual record of musical arts has only reflected that one narrow and disposable pop facet. I want a record going forward that reflects the wider range of genres we produce regardless of whether you'd hear them on commercial radio.
If the criteria for music funding is the popsong then the criteria for video funding should be the treatment and the reputation of the production company who sign on to deliver culturally reflective art.
A song submitted for video funding should not have to qualify for anything else apart from being broadcast by TV even if only as part of a specialist genre show. The submission should be accompanied by a treatment, maybe a show reel by the director and possibly a story board to which the production company is accountable to deliver. There's countless stories of getting a video grant and making a shitty handicam throw together any of us could have done for fuck all and pocket the change.
To take Rhian and Dawnraids Rocker Girl as an example. Which would you want to reflect our art and culture in this era and which is more likely to get repeated plays now and into the future and which has more potential to be screened and promoted overseas ?
We make wayy better vids for less than we do pop tunes. So the selection panel for funding videos should be visual people, not neccesarily film industry people either but it most certainly shouldn't be programmers or public servants with a narrow vision and no idea of what looks good or sounds good beyond the scope of commercial radio and the top 40 charts.
But if you're looking at Rhian's non-commercial work, I don't think NZOA is the agency to deliver support for that. It just ain't. And maybe that's okay
Then video selection should go to screen NZ with music videos being treated more as soundtracks to short films cos to be honest i'm not interested in climbing into the incestuous sack with the music makers again. I do want the chance to make quality vids though.
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Chris - I totally got the Medici patronising thang - good riposte - poor Russell has taken a beating today and grabbed the wrong end, but nobly. Interesting that the Medici crest has a spray of Jaffas just like the new Auckland logo....
but I digress...Q: What it is about the music biz that spawns so many embittered "failures and rejects".
A: I'd previously thought Jody Lloyd was the sole example, I have no stake in all this. Just thinking of the kids....Not getting you here though, I've always found Jody Lloyd to be part of the solution , not the problem - he just gets on does what he wants, (and usually very well!) whatever anyone else may think, with an impressive work ethic and social conscience, I'd put him up there as an aspirational model rather than a bleater... or have I taken you the wrong way?
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video selection should go to screen NZ with music videos being treated more as soundtracks to short films
I like that idea
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he just gets on does what he wants, (and usually very well!) whatever anyone else may think, with an impressive work ethic and social conscience, I'd put him up there as an aspirational model rather than a bleater
Yeah, he's a pioneering legend, it's a bit of tongue in cheek, he was one of the first voices I heard publicly criticizing NZOA during an all too brief phase a five years back, when he was having a bit of difficulty getting funding for the entire She'll Be Right records roster.
"Getting An NZ-On-Air Grant For Dummies"
it's easy:
1. wine and dine radio/tv/nz on air people.
2. invite them to your wedding.
3. invite them to your friday drinks down at the label office.
- in time you shall become really great pals.
(all so superficial of course, but when one is so fake one can't see it.
it's disguised as love thru the thin veil of popularity)
4. then when you have a new project coming out you invite
your new best friends round for another drinkies night.
5. when they are drunk slip them a cd. tell them it's the new big thing
and that you have thousands of dollars tied up in the project.
6. put the grant forms in.
7. bingo - you are on the list!
8. send off your bank account number.Then he got back on the horse. He's certainly not alone in being someone who ripped Brendon a new hole at some point in time. It's this tendency of the scheme, to cheese good artists off, that I take umbrage at.
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Chris - I totally got the Medici patronising thang - good riposte - poor Russell has taken a beating today and grabbed the wrong end,
The beating, I fear, was a matter of me beating my head against the wall.
I was hopeful of a reasonable discussion and exploration of ideas, but it seemed to turn into a re-run of certain other threads. Sorry that I got scratchy, but it's boring being baited.
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I'd welcome hearing more about which parts of the system could change, and leaving personalities out of it
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I'd welcome hearing more about which parts of the system could change, and leaving personalities out of it
Fair enough, but over the years, every suggestion and his dog has been bandied around, there's seldom anything distinctly new, and despite that perpetual sense that change is imminent, as music month passes, so does the public interest. Russell's idea today sounded fresh, but as you said Russell,
I don't know how this would sit with the Broadcasting Act as it stands
It does seem to be outside the mandate. From the many years devoted to these discussions it does seem that NZOA is impervious to the influence of external pressure.
it would however be refreshing to hear some suggestions for change coming from within the organization, though I'm not sure here would be the best place to do that considering the personal nature of some of the attacks in recent years, which clearly have taken us nowhere.
Your last post was good Robbie. You're quite readable when you're offering solutions rather than handling the man.
I always feel that these grants in some way take the eye off the prize to a certain extent, and while the fame of a moderate rotate video/ single can in some ways appease the artists desire to 'make it' Often times it seems to be a downhill battle once they lose the favour of the funding agencies, having achieved a profile without having put in the necessary work/ produced their best product/ reached their true potential as would be required of artists in a truly equal opportunity commercial environment.
I don't know how this would sit with the Broadcasting Act as it stands
If you need any work done, I know a guy who does renovations jibbing etc for a reasonable rate. Sorry about that again.
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< quote>was a matter of me beating my head against the wall.</ quote>
downhill battle....? read-downward spiral/ uphill battle.
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I like that idea
chur Sacha...and theres plenty more where that came from:)
Often times it seems to be a downhill battle once they lose the favour of the funding agencies...
...and at the other end, an established artist that has plateaued or is on the downhill slide can still put out the most atrocious shit year after year and still get funded.
It just saddens me that for the last 10 years NZ music across the board has come of age, but it won't be fully reflected in our visual record because only mainstream pop got the nod.
that will be NZoA's legacy for the 00's but it didn't have to be that way. This says more than i ever could...
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