Hard News: Bad men
187 Responses
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It's just not a good look, but while helen makes political hay just remember that she oversaw his promotion several times while aware of the allegations against rickards so we'll just have to wait and see as always, the teflon has to be wearing thin by now for this government.
"Oversaw his promotion several times" would be overstating the situation a great deal IMHO.
I don't know at exactly what level the government has a direct involvement with the appointment of police officers to positions. I'd hazard a guess that the government approves all people at Assistant Commissioner and above (so that's all the assistants, the deputy, and the commissioner). I couldn't imagine they'd approve inspector or superintendant appointments, they probably only go as high as the commissioner's desk.
So the government I'd imagine would only have approved one of his promotions - to assistant commissioner. Whether or not that involved Helen Clark in any serious way I'd be surprised - it might have been one of 20 appointments from the public sector that flew across the cabinet table for approval in any week.
The Minister of Police probably would have had some active role - at least seeing his CV, maybe getting to meet him before his appointment was made, but the PM would only be involved to that depth for a Commissioner appointment.
I don't even think the Prime Minister is his employer. If it's not the Commissioner of Police, then it'd be the State Services Commissioner surely?
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"Oversaw his promotion several times" would be overstating the situation a great deal IMHO.
Correct. The one time she did get a say in his promotion she turned it down.
Attempts to blame this affair on Helen Clark are quite pitiful and smack of desperation in some quarters.
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Interesting column in the Dompost this morning:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/3983574a1861.html
Richard Long himself weighing in on whether juries should hear all the evidence.
quote:
If the juries at the two recent sex trials had known that former policemen Brad Shipton and Bob Schollum were already in jail, for eight years, for a rape conviction, would it have made any difference to the outcome? I don't believe it would.
quote. -
Yeah, despite what I said upthread, that is well-put.
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Last night I saw part of a friendly post trial interview with Clint Rickards in which he said something along the lines of "In NZ we're innocent until proven guilty".
I wish the interviewer had commented back "Even if we committed the crime, we're innocent until proven guilty". But they didn't.
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The point I'm making is that as prime minister the buck stops with her. She has been prime minister over one of the dodgiest administrations we've ever had in terms of scandal. Obviously she's not responsible for his various indiscretions, to assert that would be absolutely stupid (away you go Mr Wairarapa) and I'm not for a moment trying to do so.
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'dodgiest administrations we've ever had in terms of scandal'
you cannot be serious.
like corngate - the great scandal where in turned out the alledged corn never actually existed. like paintergate - where the PM signed the back of a painting to give to a charity auction. like speedgate - where the PM is not driving, but found to be in a motorcade escorted by police, that is driving too fast.
the field thing was bad, but i don't know you can blame any party for backing one of its members until there is a strong case against them. once there was, i don't think you could call field's treatment by Labour 'protection'.
if that's dodgiest administration ever, see (1) any history of NZ politics (2) any account of the National party in and out of government (3) any historical or contemporary account of politics anywhere abroad for a comparison of what constitutes dodgy politics.give me a break.
administration with the most dodgy beat-up claims of scandal thrown at it by the right maybe, yes.
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'The point I'm making is that as prime minister the buck stops with her'
from Don above: 'The one time she did get a say in his promotion she turned it down. Attempts to blame this affair on Helen Clark are quite pitiful and smack of desperation in some quarters'
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> They *and* the most recent jury may well have believed that Shipton et al were in the habit of using police batons for sexual penetration ... but in itself that's not a criminal offence (and nor should it be). It might, OTOH, represent a significant disciplinary breach.
Ordinarily, I would agree with you. But the allegations involving a baton were aimed primarily at Shipton and Schollum, who are no longer cops. To raise the issue of baton use in conjunction with Rickards' future with the police is, I believe, barking up the wrong tree - unless you think innuendo should be permitted in employment discussions. This might explain why it was recently claimed (oh, the timing) that Rickards had had sex on the bonnet of a police car. Hopefully, this claim will be treated with the contempt it deserves.
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I hear John Key has finally broken is deafening silence on this matter. He's proposed to replace all police batons with muesli bars donated by rich people.
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Sadly it seems there are trolls everywhere over this issue :-(
never fear!! my D20 and my elven sword of ungodly smiting will vanquish these trolls!
huurah!!!
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The point I'm making is that as prime minister the buck stops with her.
Look, I'll go out on a limb for the pm of the day. If you credit her personally for every positive economic, social and sporting indicator/success of the last 7 years then maybe, just maybe you can blame her for the Rotorua police force behavior in the 1980s and Rickart's subsequent promotions. Or did those happen under a National government :-)
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Look she's my electorate mp and I expect a higher standard of stewardship than to allow and most cases support people who are involved in, financial misappropriations (tamihere), sly grog and underage girls (samuels), bursting in on undressed school girls and taping tennis balls into peoples mouths (benson pope), dodgy business practices (parker), claiming work that isn't their own (clark), recieving kickbacks in return for official services(field), get busted lying badly (dalziel), god damn it these aren't the people I voted for to be representative of me in the new zealand parliament. I voted for their party, labour, because I expect that sort of behaviour from the tory's as a matter of habit. So I'm pretty pissed at their profound lack of ethics and will retain the right to be so.
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hmm, from memory...
Tamihere NOT PROVEN (his deputy at Waiparera was)
Samuels PROVEN and MINISTERIAL WARRANT REMOVED
Benson pope NOT PROVEN (and plaintiff a tad sketchy at best)
Parker PARTIALLY PROVEN but REMOVED FROM OFFICE all the same
Clark PROVEN (what a terrible terrible crime, do you think she writes all her letters too? btw she only signed the back, somebody else later forged her name on the front too - say anything?)
Dalziel PROVEN and MINISTERIAL WARRANT REMOVEDThese are hardly good things obviously, but every government is made up of a mix of people with varying backgrounds and purities, and some will make errors, sometimes stupid errors and sometimes errors reflecting poor character. But at least they were actually dealt with.
If it were National, nothing would have happened to any of them. Guaranteed. Anyone remember the sins of the Shipley Government that were never addressed? Which members of the Key lineup do you reckon would be without sin? Key, Brownlee, Smith, McCully, Ryall, Collins, Power, Blumsky, Clarkson, which ones do you reckon?
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oh i forgot field - still to be proven but REMOVED FROM PARTY
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Gee you like those caps
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On reflection I guess we have different expectations of our elected officials. I want people who have strong ethics in combination with a decent moral code of conduct.
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That does not mean you Peter Dunne (wormtongue)
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never fear!! my D20 and my elven sword of ungodly smiting will vanquish these trolls!
huurah!!!
I have a breastplate +2 vs social humiliation
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...and with my natural +3 CHA bonus things are looking good.
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...and with my natural +3 CHA bonus things are looking good.
hmmmm... but we're looking at an ogre with +6 CHA vs. halfing manipulation... better roll very high my friend
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merc,
You will need the sword of a thousand truths...(Southpark last night).
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*Peter rolls his d20 for a few moments before letting fly and scoring a...*
12.
Hmm... Just checking the relevant saving throw tables on my Dungeon Master screen, and cross referencing my CHA bonus, subtracting the ogre's value, it says here that...
'Ross is a dumb-ass'
Well, I guess you can't argue with the rules.
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On reflection I guess we have different expectations of our elected officials. I want people who have strong ethics in combination with a decent moral code of conduct.
I doubt it very much. I suspect the difference is expecting criticism to be fair, balanced and not quite so one sided.
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cheers don. i can't say i want a govt of fools and crooks and i think i have rather high expectations of elected officials. can't say i've always been happy with this govt either. but when the msm criticisms are consistently skewed it actually starts to punish those who are doing a good job as well as those who don't ie. it has no discriminating corrective function. or worse yet it can have the perverse outcome of promoting poor behaviour.
i think it is a deeply irresponsible behaviour in anyone who likes to think they are part of a fourth estate.
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