Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Auckland: where only one man votes

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  • DexterX,

    It would have been more open to have the Directors of the CCO's to have been appointed by an independent stand alone panel and the likely appointments coming from within the administration of the councils themselves.

    With it taking three to five years to merge the IT functions of all the local councils then it would seem best to have the cart built first before one buys and starts feeding the horse.

    The likely end result of the restructuring is that it will cost Aucklanders considerably more for considerably less.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Sound bites of the day 'democratic deficit'. And 'Toothless talk shops'. Not new, but used in an appropriate context.

    There's always the Billy Bragg approach. This would have been better on the Tax threads, but never too late for some Billy, right? Takes a minute to start, but it's worth it.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    No, Steve, if it looks and quacks like a duck, and is lame in the bargain then it's the Labour party...

    I stand corrected, is there a Goff type of duck?. I daren't upset Biffer Mallard.

    I should have guessed that venturing into the lions den waving red meat around can cause problems.

    Next time wear a longer coat.
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Was pondering it today, and I wonder if Rodders and the other members of the VRWC care, or even realise, how much harm this shit's doing to the wider population's trust in the democratic process. At this point in time, I suspect it'd be a hard sell to convince the average Aucklander that the views of the prolles matter a damn to politicians. After all, we've been denied our statutorily-granted right to vote in a binding ballot on this amalgamation (Local Government Act, but the first bill on Megatropolis revoked this for the future residents of Megatropolis, and of course it was passed under urgency), we've had pretty much all our views on things like Maori seats, local board powers and council assets ignored, and now we're being told that we aren't allowed to know until months after the fact what is being done by what will be the largest single spender of ratepayer money in the region.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    Sarah Horth asks about lower water bills in Waitakere

    The reason Auckland City water bills are higher is they include the cost of the waste water disposal while Waitakere doesnt. But they do add a charge on to the rates.
    You will find Auckland City rates bills are way lower.

    I would say the new system is likey tol charge everybody for fresh water and waste water based on their consumption.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    .I appreciate Nick coming here -- and I do know where he's from -- and I think piling on to him is undignified. So perhaps we could stick to attacking each other's arguments.

    Piling?There was no piling (with all due respect)Merely thanking him for his honesty (tongue/cheek) by using tongue in cheek comments of my own got him playing along and which I thought was perfectly normal for most of us around here. He can say whatever he wants. If I disagree I may or may not comment but as equal as I am to him, his tongue in cheek should be able to be countered with mine surely? If this wasn't part of the piling well, what Sacha said :) and in case there is confusion

    Of course, it's all up to head keeper Brown in the end..

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Speaking of democracy - where we speaking of democracy? Anyhoo, remember we are going to vote for MMP vs FPP in the next election.

    As the tail wags the dog, perhaps we should ask some serious questions about what is truly representational government.

    And while we ponder this, I present the poster boy for MMP.

    And in the other blue corner, the poster boy for FPP.

    So what's this SM system all about? And the STV system has a catchy little formula called the 'droop quota'. I'm already getting a little excited about all the mansplaining potential leading into the next election, and can we make sure 'carly binding referendum' is not forgotten.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    So what's this SM system all about?

    From what I've heard, it's pretty much FPP under the guise of proportionality by adding in list seats.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Sarah Horth,

    The reason Auckland City water bills are higher is they include the cost of the waste water disposal while Waitakere doesnt. But they do add a charge on to the rates.
    You will find Auckland City rates bills are way lower.

    Thanks for explaining Steve - my rates are a bit higher in Waitakere. Do you think this means our water will go up and our rates down then? I just can't imagine anything going down in the upcoming merge...but perhaps I'm just being negative.

    Better start saving for that watertank.

    Sofie - you sounded very tongue-in-cheek to me!

    Seattle • Since Aug 2009 • 44 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Oh, don't fret y'all, it just all seemed to be getting a bit scratchy. I do like people who come in from different political places to feel they can say their piece, so long as they're here in good faith.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Was pondering it today, and I wonder if Rodders and the other members of the VRWC care, or even realise, how much harm this shit's doing to the wider population's trust in the democratic process. At this point in time, I suspect it'd be a hard sell to convince the average Aucklander that the views of the prolles matter a damn to politicians.

    Matthew: I'd disrespectfully suggest, that the kind of turn-outs we so like to sneer at in American presidential elections can't be blamed on "Rodders". If local body politicians are suffering from a credibility crisis, then it's time to get real and serious.

    It would have been more open to have the Directors of the CCO's to have been appointed by an independent stand alone panel and the likely appointments coming from within the administration of the councils themselves.

    Interesting... but I do wonder if there's one or two folks "within the administration" of various councils I'd prefer to see returned to the wilds of the private sector, and stay there. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I wonder if Rodders and the other members of the VRWC care, or even realise, how much harm this shit's doing to the wider population's trust in the democratic process.

    Doubt it. If you believe decisiveness is what governance means, then democracy is an inconvenience and the more citizens who can be discouraged from engaging, the better. However I agree with Craig that it has been a collective effort over many decades to get the voting proportions to their current proud levels.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    No it's not, Steve -- perhaps Nigel could be extended the same presumption of good faith as Mikaere and Chris Dempsey? Or myself, for that matter?

    You got elected to something Craig? Dude, if you're standing for popular election to anything you've got my vocal, but possibly counterproductive support... it was like National Party office bearer yeah... can't help there...

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    You got elected to something Craig?

    "Fornication-- but that was in another country / And besides, the wench is dead."

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    but I've got the Power, to vote.

    No

    You don't.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Don't local body elections have the Jerry Mandered system of if you own a business/land in another electorate you can vote there?

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Matthew: I'd disrespectfully suggest, that the kind of turn-outs we so like to sneer at in American presidential elections can't be blamed on "Rodders". If local body politicians are suffering from a credibility crisis, then it's time to get real and serious.

    I'm not talking about local body, though. This shit is all about national politics, and it's Central Gummint that's riding rough-shod over the democratic process.
    I'd never blame Rodney for the dire state of engagement in local body politics, because that situation pre-dates his entry into Parliament by many years, as you so rightly pointed out. But now we've got some big-time fuckery going on at the national level, all aimed at ignoring the very people affected by the changes.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Thanks Nick, finally a bit of honesty. I will be quoting you on that. I feel a letter to Rodney to confirm your statement.

    What she said.

    You mean you have a problem with elected officials having the ability to influence/fire the officials that are nominally working under them?

    Democracy is hard, we should just give it up.

    And what he said, too.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I do not represent the ACT Party

    Yes he does, I reckon. If a person is an official of a party (especially a really small one like ACT), their opinions, like it or not, are pretty much representative of how the party "thinks". It's not a hat you can take off (even if local councillors often try to con the electorate that they're "non political").

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    this guy uses only the water that falls on his roof in his nice terraced house in Sydney.

    Yeah, except that there will be a substantial amount of nutrients and pathogens leaching from his "sustainable" sewage disposal system into the ground. Especially if that system's not properly maintained (I'm sure his personal one is, but not everybody is as committed).

    Not to mention that to live on rooftop rainwater, population densities need to be so low that public transport becomes unsustainable, and the car culture gets reinforced.

    Hippies.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • UncleMopp,

    Keep digging Russ.

    A trusted source suggests that OIA requests are being defeated by having every single report emblazoned with "Draft". Apparently that makes the document outside the sphere of the requests.

    ATA seems to be staffed with every ex ACC staffer with an axe to grind against the ACC - makes it difficult to objectively work out which of the 8 different ways of doing things is the best

    Some of the IT systems are already in 5/8 of the local bodies, like the system for rates. But instead of using that system, the rates bill preparation and bill collection will be outsourced to Datamail. Even though Datamail did a less than stellar job for the ARC in this capacity.

    Since Feb 2010 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • uroskin,

    Depending on rainwater and having your own septic system on site is a planning requirement if you want to build/live on Waiheke island. It makes for slightly larger sections (which makes fruit and vegetable growing a little easier, especially since your own poos help too). It doesn't make public transport less viable: just charge properly for roads.

    Don't local body elections have the Jerry Mandered system of if you own a business/land in another electorate you can vote there?

    Correct, all residents and ratepayers (who con't have to live in the council area) can vote. Landlords have multiple votes, yes. The ratings system is a hangover of feudal times and simply needs abolishing and replaced by a local income tax (or even simpler: a portion of all residents/business taxes to central Government gets transferred to their local authorities; plus a percentage of the local GST take)

    Waiheke Island • Since Feb 2007 • 178 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Wasn't Datamail also responsible for a horrible screwup on behalf of Studylink a few years ago, too?

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Landlords have multiple votes, yes.

    No representation without taxation is the eventual aim of the municipal right.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Yes he does, I reckon. If a person is an official of a party (especially a really small one like ACT), their opinions, like it or not, are pretty much representative of how the party "thinks". It's not a hat you can take off (even if local councillors often try to con the electorate that they're "non political").

    It would be good if people could have personal opinions here which didn't come with party branding/lines. Otherwise they might as well just provide links to their party policies rather than intelligent and interesting debate. Maybe that can't apply to John Key, but he gets paid craploads of money not to have uranium shares, tens of thousands of party members and volunteers of all flavours should be able to be individuals as well as members of parties.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

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