Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: A Taxonomy of Poo

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  • Craig Ranapia,

    By the way, Russell, I'm no more qualified to assess the paper's academic credibility, but I wan't to get a grasp of the methodology involved and found this on page 26 (Appendix A: Data collection):

    Ultimately I made no pretense at having undertaken a random or representative analysis of The First Edition or the hosts’ discourse as a whole. I began research with a clear idea of my object
    and what I expected to find, and set about finding it.

    I've got a pretty clear idea that Willie Jackson is a barking moonbat, and if I really wanted to wade through his radio and television burblings (or pay Paul Litterick to do it so I don't have to suffer), I could construct a fairly nifty "John Key and National are a pack of rich prick, Maori-bashing, woman-hating white men in the pockets of foreigners and the American corporate hegemony" discourse.

    The point of which escapes me except as an exercise is Burroughsian cut-up surrealism.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Sorry PYM - Pretty Young Men?

    Makes much more sense though when singing along to the Michael Jackson classic

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Craig, I doubt I/O needs folks to run to his defence, but your comments do tend to degenerate noticeably in taste very quickly (see above). Compared, that is, to a sample of every other PA poster.

    Is that because you is slightly rightly?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, I doubt I/O needs folks to run to his defence, but your comments do tend to degenerate noticeably in taste very quickly (see above). Compared, that is, to a sample of every other PA poster.

    Is that because you is slightly rightly?

    Oh yeah, seriously tasteful thread this one. Still, I've got to thank David Hayward for firming up my conviction that any university that offers 'political science' should be done for fraud.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Sorry Craig, this time I was joking. Hence me being down wid Ali G.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    I didn't realise Hayward was a political scientist! What a fraud. No wonder our CRIs got in such a mess. Still, at least the guy can write.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Don:

    Mea culpa. Should have the wit to recognise a good tease when I see it, but you just brushed against the standby switch on my sense of humour. Rebooting as we speak... And no, I'd be a vulgar, foul-mouthed little tramp if if I was red as a baboon's bum. You work with the talents you've got, such as they are. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Sorry Craig, this time I was joking.

    As Emma suggested, we could learn from our Deaf community and adopt a symbol for sarcasm - (!)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Oh yeah, seriously tasteful thread this one.

    I dunno, hasn't seemed that bad to me having a skim back through it. A good chunk of the posts were looking at the argument from the otherside.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • merrica,

    good heavens. leave the country for a few years (7 in my case) and so much changes

    Perigo used to be a decent newsguy, and now he's degenrated into that?

    NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Sorry PYM - Pretty Young Men?

    Progressive Youth Movement. Late 1960s, early 1970s New Left movement in New Zealand. There's a rather entertaining documentary about their antics which I forget the title of.

    I've got a pretty clear idea that Willie Jackson is a barking moonbat, and if I really wanted to wade through his radio and television burblings (or pay Paul Litterick to do it so I don't have to suffer), I could construct a fairly nifty "John Key and National are a pack of rich prick, Maori-bashing, woman-hating white men in the pockets of foreigners and the American corporate hegemony" discourse.

    It really depends on what he's concluded. If his conclusion is "there's some morons out there using this discourse", then his sample doesn't need to be random or representative of the show. Indeed it wouldn't be particularly relevant.

    If his conclusion relates to quantity or how prevalent the discourse is, the influence it's having on the public etc, then it might present more of a problem.

    I haven't followed the link to read it, so I don't know.

    Of course, it's a graduate diploma, which I presume is the step below a masters at Vic. If that's the case, then it's also known as a 'long essay'. It's not top quality research, it's a first attempt by a person with a BA to do primary research in any depth. If someone was to do a PhD on the topic of my honours dissertation (which *blows own trumpet* saw light of day on Channel 9 news last night), I'm sure they'd blow it away.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    As Emma suggested, we could learn from our Deaf community and adopt a symbol for sarcasm - (!)

    But that rather defeats the purpose.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Depends how irascible your audience is I guess...

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Another thing I've noticed about the pathology of the rhetorical coprophilie is now rancid they get when their own conduct is pointed out to them.

    Craig, is that a difficult mirror to look into, or is Stephen Jones correct when he says NZers are a people even more devoid of irony than Americans?

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Thomas Johnson,

    Well, if you only read comments from Redbaiter on KB, you might miss a few gems from the usual inhabitants at the 'We Hate John Key' blog, The Standard..........

    family fist
    fucking religious mofos
    religious nutjob community
    right-wing nutters
    nasty rightwingers
    nasty little insecure creeps
    little pricks
    fundy religious nutters
    rich prick
    slavering pack of hypocrites
    attack dogs

    How "vile" they can be.

    I think it would be interesting to re-visit this topic after 9 years of a National government and re-assess the invective of the left at that point. You might see a re-poo-lution in the framing.

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood,

    Craig Ranapia wrote:

    I've got to thank David Hayward for firming up my conviction that any university that offers 'political science' should be done for fraud.

    I assume you're referring to me? Curse you, Ranapia -- Haywood! Haywood! Haywood! Will no-one ever spell my name correctly?

    As I wrote to Russell yesterday, I'm not a great fan of discourse analysis (although, yes, I do realize that I'm being a stereotypical engineer in saying that), but I certainly found the data from the dissertation quite interesting. I think it will be a valuable historical record of the political vocabulary of the times.

    Peter Cresswell wrote:

    Russell, your 'analysis' is... lame...

    I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one, Peter. I thought Russell gave a good summary of the dissertation, and made some excellent points about the style and vocabulary of Perigo and some of his followers (obviously I don't have any means of judging the accuracy of Russell's comments about Perigo's reasons for leaving Radio Pacific).

    Look, here's the thing. I'm an admirer of John Stuart Mill, and so a number of the principles of libertarianism strike a chord with me.

    I'd be very interested to read a NZ website that gives an analysis of current events and politics from a libertarian perspective. I enjoy reading 'Not PC' (although I wish you'd lay off the whole PC thing, which became thoroughly meaningless in about 1997). But Perigo's writing is so embarrassing that I simply can't bear to look at it.

    Russell was dead-on when he compared it to a Soviet-era tract. Perigo's prose is duck-speak, plain and simple. The same meaningless phrases over-and-over: "political correctness", "nanny state", etc. with almost no attempt at analysis or reference to fact. His writing is as daft as Marxist extremists, or Islamic extremists, or any other bunch of nutcases that you care to name.

    And I'm not the only one to have this opinion. Here's a second opinion from a Randian on Objectivist Living (I'm sure you're familiar with the site):

    Mr. Perigo has misused the strongest forms of moral condemnation so often that he seems no longer capable of making relevant distinctions.

    If your fellow Randians are coming out with observations like this then you should probably be re-thinking your style.

    Isn't it Perigo's (and his libertarian friends) intention to convert others to their point of view? I suggest that the voting numbers for Libertarianz (probably no more than a couple of hundred once you subtract the votes from the candidates and their friends and family) would indicate that you need a less off-putting approach.

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers,

    Sorry, Russell, your 'analysis' is as lame as the thesis, for which Mr Stoddart was awarded an academic diploma.

    A graduate diploma at VUW consists of at least 4 papers, so Stoddart would have to have submitted more coursework than just the research paper. But whatever.

    Frankly, the research was pissweak -- but that's all that's needed at universities these days.

    And the research backing up that assertion is?

    I have to say I found the piece illuminating in a few ways. I hadn't realized, for instance, that 'sociologist' was some kind of right-wing smear term. Greg Clydesdale's Kim Hill interview makes a lot more sense to me now.

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, is that a difficult mirror to look into, or is Stephen Jones correct when he says NZers are a people even more devoid of irony than Americans?

    I don't know, Paul, as I really wasn't buying into the framing the whole S. 59 repeal debate as insane fundie Christian child-killers vs. politically correct wimps who wouldn't rest until the prisons were full of loving parents. Nor do I think the signal-to-noise ratio around the Civil Union Bill was any better.

    And I don't really think Helen Clark's uterus or what she does with her pussy (and what she does it with with any number of consenting adults of whatever gender) is interesting, let alone a legitimate area of public interest. No more than the squalid sewer sperlunking around Don Brash's alleged extra-marital affairs. That was one spasm of bipartisan pantie-sniffing that left me embarrassed to be a citizen of a country that loves to affect moral superiority over those nasty Americans.

    But I will cop to this -- you bet your life that I'm damn sick of being tarred by association with right-wing nuts. And I've had enough bile spat in my direction by their soul brothers on the loony left that I'm not notably sympathetic to any moral high horse dressage from the other side of aisle.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Which is, I guess, a long winded way of saying I've got some things I don't really have a sense of humour about. Sue me.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Alex Coleman,

    Isn't it Perigo's (and his fellow libertarians) intention to convert others to their point of view?

    Well it's impossible to tell, but I'd guess 'not'.

    It looks like the point is to sit around laughing at how stupid every other philosophy is, because A, like totally equals A', an' shit, therefore Kant's just a poo and Rawls is even dumber than his very stupid son. heh. snigger.

    Only the very very clever can see the profound wisdom of this A=A' business without allowing themselves to become distracted by, on the one hand, it's tautological meaninglessness or, in the hand where it does mean something, it's utter failure to account for most of the things we see about us. Like differences of opinion, humour that doesn't involve poo, and the fact that objectivists have more schisms per-capita than any other group (including 60's and 70's marxists).

    The fewer people that they can convince, the cleverer you need to be to understand it. Ipso bloody facto mate, objectivism must be true 'cause only the very cleverest people can believe it and they wouldn't be wrong, objectively speaking. Which means that they are entitled to talk poo about everyone else.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 247 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I'm not a great fan of discourse analysis (although, yes, I do realize that I'm being a stereotypical engineer in saying that)

    Ha, I believe we have Arts papers in common, Haywood.

    Sometimes tone conveys more. My sadly deceased Granny could put so much feeling into the two words "that Miggie" that if Thatcher had been within 100 miles she would have frizzled up and dissolved into a smoking acidic puddle.

    I was trying to remember back to when I was a rabid teenage lefty radical, listening to Billy Bragg in damp Wellington student flats and bitching about Thatcher. I can't remember any particular poo-phrases, but there was certainly some mindless vitriol. She shared with Clark the 'pleasure' of frequently being portrayed as grotesquely unfeminine.

    For the record, teaching someone all the words to The Red Flag by making her skull every time she made a mistake is NOT the most effective teaching technique.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    I assume you're referring to me? Curse you, Ranapia -- Haywood! Haywood! Haywood! Will no-one ever spell my name correctly?

    As I wrote to Russell yesterday, I'm not a great fan of discourse analysis (although, yes, I do realize that I'm being a stereotypical engineer in saying that), but I certainly found the data from the dissertation quite interesting. I think it will be a valuable historical record of the political vocabulary of the times.

    Oh Yeah. Mr. "as I wrote to Russell". Who, Bertram? QED. You Pol Sci freak.

    /me totally not under the unfluence

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood,

    Emma Hart wrote:

    Ha, I believe we have Arts papers in common, Haywood.

    The difference is that you actually passed your Arts papers. I withdrew from my Arts papers, and took my socially retarded personality over to Mechanical Engineering (and then I huddled over equations and didn't speak to anyone for a couple of years).

    Don Christie wrote:

    Oh Yeah. Mr. "as I wrote to Russell". Who, Bertram? QED. You Pol Sci freak.

    Oops... perhaps my comment came out wrong. I was referring to Craig's post, which I assumed was a reference to the first few words of Russell's blog. No name-dropping intended, I swear!

    Good to see that you're doing your part to raise the per capita beer consumption of Zambians, Don. The other two Zambians I've known were both teetotallers, which rather made me fear for the state of the place. Or, at least, for my chances of getting a drink if I should happen to be passing through on my way, say, from Malawi to Angola.

    Alex Coleman wrote:

    It looks like the point is to sit around laughing at how stupid every other philosophy is, because A, like totally equals A', an' shit, therefore Kant's just a poo and Rawls is even dumber than his very stupid son. heh. snigger.

    An intriguing hypothesis...

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I can't remember any particular poo-phrases, but there was certainly some mindless vitriol. She shared with Clark the 'pleasure' of frequently being portrayed as grotesquely unfeminine.

    I guess you've got to be a politics nerd of a certain age to remember when she was called "Maggie The Milk-Snatcher", but you hardly had to be a rabid Thatcherite to note the irony that she was damned if she did develop a hell of a thick skin to deal with the casual misogyny from all sides. (And remember, Thatcher wasn't only the wrong gender, but entirely the wrong class. Trade, darling.) She was damned if made the slightest move to "femme" up her image -- being photographed with her children, or doing a women's page fluff interview about clothes -- she was criticised for being charming but not really serious enough for the top job.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    I'm a little off footed here:

    "School shooting: It's when, not if"
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4621587a11.html

    Are Methcon branching out on the alarmist call or are the Cops abdecating their responsibility for vetting firearms licence holders?

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

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