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Access: Disability as a wicked policy problem

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  • Tom Adson, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    "Very interesting Tom. Certainly agree about the need for Joining up and working as a team to improve things."

    That's all I'm saying really, but I just wanted to justify it.

    Lower Hutt • Since Jul 2015 • 35 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Adson,

    Rosemary, good points but I do not see mental disability included in the DPA/DPO list. I think if ALL the disabled can be assembled as one within our democratic system the politicians are more likely to be empowered and then they might listen more. There are a lot of mentally disabled people around, so we need to enrol them (and especially their carers) as allies.

    As you imply naming and shaming will not help our cause. Better to appeal to rhyme and reason.

    Lower Hutt • Since Jul 2015 • 35 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Hiya Tom, Balance NZ..http://www.balance.org.nz/ Mental health.

    and People First http://www.peoplefirst.org.nz/ Learning disability.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Sensitive portrayal of impairment following stroke and brain damage in this article today about musician and artist Chris Knox. In the entertainment section not the health pages - for a change.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/70903606/chris-knox-not-giving-in-lightly

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Thanks Hilary, and maybe we could listen to this

    while reading that.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Christine Peet, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Love this. The song I will come down the aisle to when we marry next year.

    New Zealand • Since May 2014 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C,

    I take note that this discussion thread is still active. There is some information available, that shows how poor the actual “evidence” is, that we get presented by such “experts” like the Ministry of Social Development’s Principal Health Advisor Dr David Bratt, who seems to be picking whatever statistics and quotes by other “experts”, that suit his and the Ministry’s agenda, to try to prove and justify their new policy approaches for sick, injured and disabled on WINZ benefits:

    https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/08/09/msd-and-dr-david-bratt-present-misleading-evidence-claiming-worklessness-causes-poor-health/

    While not all the references he may at times use can be dismissed, there appears to be a reliance on “evidence” that is not quite what it seems, which raises further questions about the whole agenda MSD now follow, trying to get sick and disabled into work.

    That new publication also reveals how little commitment one of our dear Ombudsmen appears to have, when trying to “investigate” matters, which raise very serious questions about public record maintenance and other issues.

    So how “independent” is our Ombudsman, how “independent” are the Health and Disability Commissioner, the Privacy Commissioner, and some other ones?


    And this newly found post also shows, what is happening behind the scenes, that is, which is NOT even reported on by the useless media we have. Dr Bratt has been commissioned by his MSD superiors, to find ways of widening the scope of persons (health practitioners and professionals of various professions) that WINZ may in future use to present ‘Work Capacity Medical Certificates’, with a stronger focus on what they have done already in the UK, by introducing “fit notes” (to replace “sick notes”) for assessing persons for work capability.

    I fear the day will come, that we will get our version of ATOS or MAXIMUS, and of the WCA that have scared many disabled in the UK, and sadly even pushed some to commit suicide, as they could not cope with expectations and pressures put upon them.

    Have a study of this one also, to enlighten yourselves, those who may care:
    https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/msd-are-planning-to-widen-the-scope-for-who-can-sign-work-capacity-medical-certificates/

    Auckland • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Christine Peet,

    +lots!

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    This....http://www.hdc.org.nz/decisions--case-notes/commissioner's-decisions/2015/13hdc01655...was released the other day, with a mention here,,,http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/280963/caregiver-held-disabled-teen-on-floor

    3. On 18 July 2013, a verbal altercation between Mr A and Mr B occurred at the facility, culminating in Mr B (who weighed around 170kg) physically restraining Mr A (who weighed around 50-60kg). There are various accounts regarding the nature of the restraint, but it is more likely than not that Mr B "grabbed" Mr A, which resulted in both parties ending up on the floor for around 10 minutes.

    The report makes confusing reading.

    The provider is not named, but the only provider I know of who refers to its clients as "mokopuna" is Te Roopu Taurima O Manukau.

    Te Roopu Taurima was one of the three providers scrutinised in the 2012 "Putting People First" report, which examined cases of institutional neglect, abuse and assault.

    The other two providers were shut down.

    http://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/putting-people-first-review-of-disability-support-services-dec13.pdf

    After a damning external review in 2011, huge amounts of resources were poured into this provider, and at the time of the PPF report (Nov 2012)

    monitoring of Te Roopu continues
    with the Ministry keeping it under close supervision through monthly meetings between a Contract Relationship Manager and Te Roopu’s senior management. A Senior Disability Advisor with significant
    experience in complex care under the IDCC&R Act also plays a critical oversight role with Te Roopu.
    As a result of these actions, the Ministry is confident that its close monitoring of Te Roopu’s services is
    resulting in significant changes in the culture and safety of people in the provider’s care.

    If the provider in the latest case examined by the Health and Disability Commission is TRT (and my sincere apologies if I'm wrong), then it would seem that the stated interventions were not particularly successful.

    This incident happened two years ago.

    One would have thought, in the interests of protecting extremely vulnerable people, the HDC would have examined this case much sooner.

    "Resolution, protection, learning"

    One of the objectives of the Health and Disability Commissioner Act is to "secure the fair, simple, speedy and efficient resolution of complaints".

    If this provider is TRT, the one the writers of the Putting People First report described as...

    too important to fail. It was the only organisation in the country providing Kaupapa
    Maori facilities under its contract, and the Ministry has undertaken to continue to assist Te Roopu to
    develop the important services it offers Maori.

    one can only wonder how many other complaints are waiting to be addressed.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Ah, yeah, the HDC, yet again, they deliver nothing much more than “wet bus ticket slaps on the wrist” kind of recommendations, like additional “training”, further “checks” and what else may come to mind. Very rarely is a complaint passed on the Director of Proceedings, who (like the Commissioner generally) has very much “discretion” as to whether to refer the matter to a Tribunal, for a proper hearing, or not so.

    I lost faith in the Health and Disability Commissioner (HDC) a very long time ago.

    They have over recent times published more decisions on more complaints, but as a percentage of all the ever increasing numbers of complaints, it is still minimal, what actually gets “investigated”.

    Some insight into their workings, and the legal frame work that offers them endless discretion, to do basically little to next to nothing, can be found here:
    http://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/health-and-disability-commissioner-can-we-trust-in-hdc-independence/

    Auckland • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    too important to fail. It was the only organisation in the country providing Kaupapa Maori facilities under its contract, and the Ministry has undertaken to continue to assist Te Roopu to develop the important services it offers Maori.

    Rather than fostering a safe alternative service to set up, then close this one for good. Not too bright, the MoH contracting folk.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/oneinfive/audio/201766503/the-impact-of-social-bonds-on-mental-health-services

    Finally!!! A One in Five programme that isn't all happy clappy inspiration stuff..

    A reasonably good discussion about "Social Bonds" ably orchestrated by Mike Gourley.

    I am none the wiser...all I can see is it being about commercialisation of human suffering...

    What sort of person could possibly expect to profit from the misery of others??

    However...more than well worth a listen...

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Sacha,

    Rather than fostering a safe alternative service to set up, then close this one for good. Not too bright, the MoH contracting folk.

    It was a shame that there were mixed messages broadcast during the time that these reports were hitting the media.

    For instance; http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/134374/call-for-legal-action-over-care-home-case,

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2554118/disability-advocates-speak-out-over-worries-for-clients-in-care

    A disability advocate....

    She also wants criminal negligence charges laid against Parklands' owners Neil and Linnaire Joslin. Dr Hickey said after one complaint is upheld an institution should be put on warning, and after a second, closed down.

    yet, when the conversation was about Te Roopu Taurima..

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/135964/disability-service-rejects-some-of-report's-findings

    Disability lawyer and advocate Huhana Hickey has followed the organisation's progress since it started in 2004. Dr Hickey says it was the first of its kind and should have been given more assistance from the ministry.
    "They were not surrounded with the supports they needed. They weren't given the right process and as a result they got left to flounder. And flounder they did - until they got audited and it got sorted out."

    The incident investigated by the HDC happened on 18th July 2013...some two months after this disability rights advocate assured us that all was sorted at TRT.

    Not acceptable.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Re abuse, there was a fascinating but awful documentary on Prime a couple of weeks ago called Little Criminals. It was based on David Cohen's book of the same name about the Epuni Boys' Home. Several people who had experienced the heartlessness of state care told their stories. Unfortunately, Prime replays are not very accessible. You have to join up to SkyGo to view. State funded documentary about state funded abuse - but you can't see it unless you sign up to a private provider.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Don't you just love those unsolicited emails?

    Got one today, from these guys....https://www.mycare.co.nz/

    who are trading as these guys....https://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/4632420

    and look! There's Laurie Hilsgen from Carers NZ (remember, they didn't support the family carers case until after the PHDAct(2).

    Looks to me like this site is in anticipation of a mass roll out of the 'voucher' system, IF type programme.

    Usual happy clappy slick site...offering free services to carers and those needing support.

    But where is the money coming from...this is a limited company?

    They sure are quick off the mark...considering the voucher scheme has not even been set up yet...or do they know something the rest of us are not privy to?

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    offering free services to carers and those needing support.

    But where is the money coming from...this is a limited company?

    Interesting. Didn't see the word 'free' anywhere. Based on the limited range of people in the photos on their website, perhaps they are targetting families who can afford to pay privately? I can see how a web-based system like this might be a cheaper way for families to organise care than the intermediary organisations currently available, in any case.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Sacha,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    and, offering to do Police Checks for potential carers for the client for free.

    My PLOD detector is in overdrive here...maybe an overreaction...but I do believe this company is lining up to facilitate/enable a voucher system for home based support...especially in the elder care 'market'.

    They will have got my email address, I think (see, I too can use the butt covering phrase!) from the Carers NZ site....I have emailed Laurie Hilsgen on a number of occasions. The Carers NZ site also has a log in....clever...using a largely government funded organisation to capture future clients for your new business.

    Even weirder...this company was set up before the announcement from Bill (the lizard) English, what, three months ago...which prompted this post from Hilary.

    Is there an announcement pending....?

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    and, offering to do Police Checks for potential carers for the client for free.

    couldn't see that in the email you linked to.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    When I listened to this One in Five piece on social bonds on Sunday, I couldn't help thinking of the victim-blaming policy that's been proposed in Britain, where unemployment threatens to be reduced to a psychological disorder. Basically it can be summed up as "believe in yourself, or else!"

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    this company was set up before the announcement

    Government's general direction telegraphed for a while now.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    the victim-blaming policy that's been proposed in Britain, where unemployment threatens to be reduced to a psychological disorder.

    Which is what Marc has been posting about so consistently. Their fundamental flaw is believing that disability is fixable, and that it is located in us.

    The 'answer' therefore means forcing individuals to change, rather than looking to the other enablers of an employment relationship or indeed, of a life. Unless there is substantial ongoing investment in changing discrimatory employer attitudes, it won't matter how skilled or chirpy disabled job applicants are.

    The Welfare Working Group that this government used to come up with its income support changes had only one member with disability knowledge, and unfortunately for us all she is a professor of rehabilitation.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Sacha,

    Well, hey....anyone in Auckland want to go and check it out???

    MANY opportunities....

    https://www.mycare.co.nz/img/MyCare-Diary-of-Events.pdf

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I think MyCare is a contract that Carers NZ won a while ago (at least a year or so) from the Ministry of Health to create a website or some other mechanism linking up respite carers with those looking for respite care. It is here being marketed to those in elder care, but I have heard it mentioned several times in the last couple of years by Ministry people in the context of disabled (particularly autistic) children and families looking for respite care. That has been a big issue for some families as respite care is very hard to find. It tied in with policies also mentioned a few years ago of bulk funding families through IF or similar. So certainly would fit in with a voucher scheme.

    It would be good for someone to go to one of those Auckland meetings and report back.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    I remember those conversations Hilary...and respite care was the emphasis. If "MyCare" is about respite...why set up a limited company?

    IF is being used for respite and a carer support type scheme..Tauranga is where I've heard of it being used...paying relief carers about $18 per hour...rather than the $3 under CSS. In Hamilton, (years ago now) CCS Disability Action had their Home To Home scheme, matching carer families with families looking for care for a disabled child. CCS did the vetting and police checks.

    We cared for a couple of kids on the spectrum...but I'm afraid we could not provide respite for those children with extreme behaviours....and those inclined to bolt. We simply could not guarantee their safety.

    Please...someone check out one of those meetings?

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1346 posts Report Reply

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