you see, this is why Steven Joyce is so darn dangerous. The thread starts off with Christine Rankine but ends up with different types of Greens scratching each others' eyes out over soy and cotton.

Genius. Evil genius...

PC,

Brazil has, until very recently, had nothing that might be conceivably be called a welfare system and yet has also had violent crime rates (including domestic crime) that utterly dwarf ours. What's more the poor, despite not being "paid to have children" have done so there with quite some vigour.

Do you have any evidence at all to suggest that eliminating the DPB would actually reduce crime in New Zealand?